Yes it should be an impressive little round. We will see, there are alot of good ideas on paper that really never product once bullets start to fly but the smaller Allen Mags have topped our performance goals so I expect to see the same with the 7mm.
I agree, flatter shooting does not equate to most accurate but from seeing how well the other heavy weight ULDs Wildcats are shooting I am not the least bit concerned about this.
The 300 gr ULDs are shooting very well, have shot several sub 14" groups at one mile with them and groups at 500 yards are generally in the 1" to 1 1/4" range.
I have yet to test the 350 gr pills at ranges past 500 yards but at that range they shoot nearly identical to the lighter 300 gr pills. I am shooting a 1-10 twist so we will see how they do at extreme range as far as stability goes. IF they are stable at 500 yards I suspect they will be fine.
Accuracy wise, at least in my 338 Kahn, the Wildcats hold tighter average groups at 500 yards then the Sierra Mk bullets. Both shoot very well as the Sierra will hold 1.5" groups but I have shot enough 3/4" groups with the wildcats at 500 yards to know these are the only bullets I will use in my Kahn.
To avoid the B.C. argument again, they also shoot a few inches flatter out to 500 yards then teh Sierra bullets when both are zeroed at the same 100 yard point. So take that for what its worth.
Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.
Fifity.. not trying to rain on your parade so please don't take offense....These Allen mags seem impressive.. but let me offer this...
7mm is a margnal bullet dia. for Elk... I think there is alot to say about "thinner" bullets on 600lb+ animals... for deer sized game they are very well suited... and this 7 Allen mag could be a real nice LR deer rifle....
I don't have any "hard" data to prove this other than being a big game guide and watching guys with the "7mmMag" taking shot after shot... to stop the Bull... I would personally prefer the .30 and .338 cal bullets.... I guess I see "frontal area" of the bullet to be and improtant factory in stopping power...
Ric: Come on Ric, given your experience you know as well as I that bullet construction and placement, as well as the animals state of agitation/adrenalin flow, is most often the deciding factor.
I shot a 6 point bull elk at 90 yards a few years back with .338 Win Mag and 250 grain bullet. One shot behind shoulder and he went down but got back up. Second shot through front shoulder and he went down again but got back up. Bullet performance was as expected and shoulders were broken but he managed to somehow get up. Third shot through front shoulder again put him down finally. This doesn't make the 338 mag a bad or insufficient cartridge for elk, it's just that the bull was excited, had been running and was all pumped up and decided he didn't really want to die. I just had to convince him otherwise.
I have taken several elk with 7mm mags and none have taken more than one shot. This doesn't make the 7mm better than the 338 mag it just means that all of the shots were properly placed on reasonably calm, unexcited elk.
I once watched a "hunter" with a 300 Weatherby, using 200 grain bullets, shoot and shoot and shoot at and into a bull elk. After 6 shots and 6 hits the bull finally went down for good. Range from the hunter to the elk was less than 150 yards. This doesn't make the 300 Weatherby an inadequate round for elk it just meant that the shooter was not capable of hitting the side of a barn if he was on the inside of said barn. No game animal should be subjected to being turned into swiss cheese like he did to that bull.
"Thinner" bullet??? 308 minus 284 means the unexpanded, frontal area, of the 7mm is .024" smaller than the 30 cal bullets. Hardly enough to worry about.
Frontal area of expanded 7mm vs. 30 cal bullets can be a toss up depending on the bullet used. I have always used heavy bullets in my 7mm's designed for heavy game. I would agree that the 7mm with lighter, deer class bullets, would not be my choice for elk sized animals but I feel that the 7mm with proper bullet selection is entirely up to the task at hand when hunting elk.
Run the numbers, like Kirby said, and you'll see that the 7mm with Richard's 200 grain bullets in his new 7mm AM will make the 30's and 338's take a hind seat to the ballistically better round.
The 7mm AM with lighter bullets would not be my choice, no matter how fast it is, for elk, but I see Kirby's new round as one that will give hunters and shooters something that will perform on anything from varmints to elk and moose as long as the proper bullet is used. And it will be able to do it at ranges far beyond most people's abilities.
You said "thoughts ??" and these are mine. Take it for what it's worth because it's just my opinions and we all know about opinions and that other thing that everyone has. Everyone has them.
The thing is that everyone has their right to their opinions. I would just hope that when it comes to picking and using cartridges and bullets for elk, or for that matter any game animal, that people would consider everything when making their decisions. Use a cartridge/gun combination that will deliver a properly selected bullet for the animal you are hunting at a velocity for the range used that will give the terminal performance that will harvest the animal cleanly and humanely. Then they should limit their shots to a range that means they are assured of their bullet placement.
This much thought about Kirby's 7mm and it's capabilities has me thinking. Maybe I'll talk to him about one.
I know of several people that shot the 7/300WBY. made by Leonard Sheffield of Rome,Ga. that killed several elk I'm thinking bullet design and placement will go a long way in stopping the big critters having said this I prefer the .338