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First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

 
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  #295  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:03 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot1960 View Post
Establishment??? What the heck do you want from this thread?, dont be offended just because some people dont walk the same road as you, these scopes are only as good as the user/shooter, as I have said before I have seen people with $150 rifles win the day and some with $6000 rifle do the same,

Its not about what you spend or who is right, IT is about what is right for YOU,

and its not about buying just because ya Mate likes it,
Bingo!! There are extremely high level shooters shooting FFP and SFP, they use them for different reasons and in different ways so what ever works the best for you rock it!
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  #296  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:15 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Guys, who is being slow now ???? My comments were related to the "spirit" of the thread. There is such a thing, is there not ?

I don't need external validation to be secure in my decisions. I am going to certainly listen to the opinion of others on matters I have no experience in to help guide my actions. But when I have listened, then bought the item and used it and made the comparisons to the alternative and still clearly feel I made the right decision, that is it. This seems to be the same thing many of the contributors to this thread have said, but comments about not fixing what is not broke (rooting for old shite) are not helping anyone who comes to this thread to be educated.

It would be nice to have a sticky in the optics section (as opposed to the long range hunting and shooting section) which distills the essence from this thread.

Orkan, you have made some terrific contributions to this thread with images that illustrate several of the key points, but you allow some of the others here to push your buttons too effectively. Were you ever an NCO in the military ? I was and found that you have to block (the reaction to) the button pushing, because otherwise people treat you like cheap entertainment.
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  #297  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
Guys, who is being slow now ???? My comments were related to the "spirit" of the thread. There is such a thing, is there not ?

I don't need external validation to be secure in my decisions. I am going to certainly listen to the opinion of others on matters I have no experience in to help guide my actions. But when I have listened, then bought the item and used it and made the comparisons to the alternative and still clearly feel I made the right decision, that is it. This seems to be the same thing many of the contributors to this thread have said, but comments about not fixing what is not broke (rooting for old shite) are not helping anyone who comes to this thread to be educated.

It would be nice to have a sticky in the optics section (as opposed to the long range hunting and shooting section) which distills the essence from this thread.

Orkan, you have made some terrific contributions to this thread with images that illustrate several of the key points, but you allow some of the others here to push your buttons too effectively. Were you ever an NCO in the military ? I was and found that you have to block (the reaction to) the button pushing, because otherwise people treat you like cheap entertainment.

When I first got involved with this thread I was about 65% for SFP's and 35% for FFP's and with Orkan's input here and a few others, I see that the bottom line is There is no perfect DO IT ALL scope, and one is no better than the other and all these scopes do is give any Shooter about 1 or 2% boost at the most, some of the shooters here are so good that theres not much they cant do with a rifle and with a junk scope they would still whoop ya,

Your comments about the Establishment were'nt need or fair on the guys here, No one's pushing buttons and all people want to know at the end of the day IS Whats it going to do For Me?? and lets face it we all try so hard to win or do the Shot of the Century and they are few and far between, for some of us, and these scopes have no effect on what other do we buy it for our selves and lets face it our Ideas about these things go up and down like a Bride's Nighty (night gown),

john
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  #298  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:24 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

No one was suggesting anything about a do it all scope. The question is: When can I benefit from having a FFP scope ? Most people are familiar with SFP scopes since that is the default market offering. Having said that, how many people have the fancy SFP reticles ? Probably 95% if not more has some sort of basic plex reticle.

The SFP scopes with the fancy reticles are about as rare as the FFP's since they come in scopes with massive price tags. Then when you add target turrets and illumination, the bill is looking pretty scary.

So in my opinion, if you are cheap, then the top of the line Vortex Viper is probably not going to be on your list. If you want good turrets and illumination, the Viper PST FFP is probably starting to look pretty decent. If your shooting tends to be unpressurized, you probably will want to keep the extra $200 in your wallet.

The $830 and $900 I paid for my scopes is chump change to the heros in this thread.
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  #299  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:40 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
The $830 and $900 I paid for my scopes is chump change to the heros in this thread.
I don't know who you are referring to but since I have made a fair share of posts I will assume you were referring to me as one. You couldn't be more wrong either. I am NO hero, just a guy that hunts and shoots a lot. I have worked hard and long to pay for the equipment I use. I also make sacrifices. You will find no fancy 4 wheeler in my garage. What you will find is a pair of worn boots and a pickup with 200,000 miles. And that's our newer vehicle.

When I buy a new scope and pay $1800 for it I can tell you it for sure is not chump change. I am 54 and earned every penny of it.

You preach of things said that as being worthless comments and , digs and pushing buttons. What the hell was that comment you just made?

The truth is you do not shoot long range. That is fine and consistent to your hunting area. I am happy for you and I am sure you kill game. But please don't try to tell other what we need to make a long shot. 400 yards may be long to you but it is not in elk country.

The difference in the distances being talked about has everything to do with what and how you use your scope.

Jeff

PS, my every day coyote rifle wears a Vortex viper, and so does my gopher rifle. I have written reviews and praised vortex scope for years.
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  #300  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Well the scopes you have are the one's I want to buy and scopes have never been my highest priority but these Vortex PST's will be the highest priced scopes I've ever bought, at one time Leupold were the thing to have and I have seen them stuck on cheap .22 rifles, I dont think I would class your $900 scope as cheap at all and I believe they are in the top 5 must have scopes and I Like the NF scopes and Premier along with the 6500 Bushnells and S&B I think any one of these Id feel Proud to own as for the weak link in the chain thats more likely to be me than the scope

John
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  #301  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:02 PM
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Posts: 997
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Jeff, I am most certainly not trying to give you any advice. You surely have no need for any from me and when you do the kind of shooting that is challenging to me, your vastly greater experience and "muscle memory" (if that definition fits) means that you are able to compensate without needing a crutch like a better reticle for closer range. It is simply a fact that out west you will get a lot more coyote shooting opportunities than I will and their behavior is different too.

However, I do think that people in my situation who have less practice and less opportunity, will benefit from the type of scope I use for coyotes.

This thread is in the Long range forum, but the OP asked a question which does not necessarily apply specifically to long range hunting only. If I ought to withdraw any comments related to shooting less than 600 yards because of which forum this thread is in, then perhaps that was my mistake, as opposed to addressing the subject of the question.

You never mentioned price in any of your posts that I recall, but that does not mean that it is not common knowledge what some of the brands cost and there were some pretty direct posts on spending $3k plus on scopes. Until 13 years ago I hardly earned $600 a month, so I am not joking about money either. Particularly money for the future.

We should not attack each other about whats best, but rather try to openly consider when someone might benefit from having some specific technology. I fired exactly 8 rounds from September to February in the field. I killed 4 deer (2 early season does, 1 buck on Nov 15 and 1 additional doe at 10 yards in the muzzleloader season) in addition to the coyote double. I missed a few times too when I got a bad range from my replacement Nikon Monarch rangefinder. We have to use slug guns here in deer season, so ranging is nearly as critical as in bow hunting.

Clearly, I will never become a marksman or learn how to lead a running animal with that number of shot opportunities. Having reliable subtentions on the reticle has certainly helped me. If my experience can help any of the other million midwest or east coast hunters, that would be a positive thing.
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