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First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

 
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  #218  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:07 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot E View Post
A few I know about.

Premier Gen 2 XR (in Premier scopes only) .025 MIL/.085 MOA
Bushnell Tactical G2- .03 MIL/.1 MOA

I am pretty sure I have the SS 5-20 specs at home. Will post those later.

SS 5-20 .05 MIL/.17 MOA main line thickness, .015 MIL/.05 MOA MQ Dot size

Scot E.
Its Like I said the Vortex SFP is .03 MIL and the FFP is .06 MIL so for fairly small targets at Long Range the SFP would be the better choice,

Both of these two Scopes are Lazer Etched But as I said before when sighting in at 200yds the FFP Reticle will cover 12mm of the Target and that is with the 0.06 MIL thickness which meens you will have alot of trouble seeing a 5.5mm hole of the .308 ,

But what is worse is this would be totally useless on the smaller rounds of 223, 243 and maybe the 270,

I have noticed this Problem when I was sighting in a Ruger in ,223 @ 200yds a few years back but being young I did'nt give it a second thought and that was using A 30-30 Reticle in a 3-9x40,

But in the real World if we took these figures and thought of them every time we bought a Scope we would all be Shooting .50 Cals just so we could scope it in, Next time you go to sight in your Rifles at the range Just check out how much these Values are noticable because it would be great to have the Facts right here on this thread,

Thanks, John
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  #219  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:44 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot1960 View Post
Its Like I said the Vortex SFP is .03 MIL and the FFP is .06 MIL so for fairly small targets at Long Range the SFP would be the better choice,

Both of these two Scopes are Lazer Etched But as I said before when sighting in at 200yds the FFP Reticle will cover 12mm of the Target and that is with the 0.06 MIL thickness which meens you will have alot of trouble seeing a 5.5mm hole of the .308 ,

But what is worse is this would be totally useless on the smaller rounds of 223, 243 and maybe the 270,

I have noticed this Problem when I was sighting in a Ruger in ,223 @ 200yds a few years back but being young I did'nt give it a second thought and that was using A 30-30 Reticle in a 3-9x40,

But in the real World if we took these figures and thought of them every time we bought a Scope we would all be Shooting .50 Cals just so we could scope it in, Next time you go to sight in your Rifles at the range Just check out how much these Values are noticable because it would be great to have the Facts right here on this thread,

Thanks, John
Why are you so concerned about seeing 308 or 223 holes? Because they are going to be your new aimpoint? If you just care about about spotting shots just view the target away from the reticle. Your aimpoint should be the same regardless of where the bullets are hitting, ie on the X. Maybe I misunderstood your point.

Do some reading on bracketing the target with your reticle. It is amazing how accurate you can be even with a larger reticle and/or larger aim point.

Scot E.
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  #220  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:46 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
I hate to see speculation, when this info is readily accessible on the web.
0.21MOA is the width of the reticle on the 4-16 and 0.18MOA on the 6-24
Neither of those number is a limiting factor to me. Yes it would probably help if both horizontal and the vertical actually stopped short of going all the way to the center (like a 1/4MOA gap each way for a 1/2 MOA "hole"). Perhaps if enough of us ask for it, Vortex will listen.



WestCliffe, I'm NOT Speculating Anything AT ALL, work out the Math on that for a second,

IF they were that Thick they would be .21 = 21MIL at 100yds and that 210MIL at a 1000yds that is 8 and a 1/4 inches at a 1000yds.

Now how the Heck can we see A 1/2" MOA Hiding behind a21mm Reticle

1/2"= 12.7mm approx, 21mm= 13/16ths,

I Repeat, I Phone the Company that Supplies the British Army And the British Police Force and He looked it up on his computer just to make sure and he said that they are .03 and .06

Now weather Those drawings are accurite as per newer models I dont know, But I will Call him again and get the Spec Sheet that he is Quoting from,

If they were .21 that meens they would measure .00827" (just over 8 thou) I think,

When a Person from a multi million Dollar Company Who supplies the Armed Forces gives me the good Oil on a product I have now reason to call him a Liar.

this thread is getting out of hand now, I am the messinger Thats all
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  #221  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:11 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

WestCliffe here's where you might of misunderstood my Post

3.6mil, and 1 moa/// 3.6 devided by 1.047= 3.438395415

3.438395415x 0.06=0.206303724 rounded off IS .21 or 0.21 MOA FFP Model

Like I said they are 0.06 MIL, NOT 0.06 MOA

3.438395415 X 0.03= 0.103151862 MOA for the SFP Model.

I hope this helps because the pictures you have posted are In MOA, When I was Explaining the Figures In Mrad's/mm,

blessin's. john

Last edited by mildot1960; 03-18-2013 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Missed a letter
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  #222  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot E View Post
A few I know about.

Premier Gen 2 XR (in Premier scopes only) .025 MIL/.085 MOA
Bushnell Tactical G2- .03 MIL/.1 MOA

I am pretty sure I have the SS 5-20 specs at home. Will post those later.

SS 5-20 .05 MIL/.17 MOA main line thickness, .015 MIL/.05 MOA MQ Dot size

Scot E.
It seems that these Premier Scopes are the finest Reticle's and are about as good as they Get It's no wonder they are knocking B&S and Leupold etc right off their Perch,

thanks for the info

john
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  #223  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:21 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Terre Haute In.
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

[QUOTE=Broz;780976]I remain optimistic about this being possible in the future. I and others in higher chairs than I have talked to them about the need. I am pushing for just dropping the thickness of the floating crosshair. Might be the best of both worlds? But it could end up simply as a "MOAR thin"

But yes, either would be nice if the ATACR is what we hope it is. I will know shortly as I will be looking through one mounted up by the end of the week and sending lead very soon.

Broz,
Does this mean you now have your LRKM? Looking forward to your reviews.
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Rick

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  #224  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:24 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick523 View Post
Broz,
Does this mean you now have your LRKM? Looking forward to your reviews.
Not yet. I have another new rifle in 338 EDGE I am going to use to review the ATACR. My review of the LRKM in 338 Terminator +P will be later.

Jeff
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