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First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

 
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  #183  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:38 PM
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Location: Townsend, Montana.
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

I agree it is very evident many of the deciding factors are "personal preferences" and a new user should look hard at the differences and decide what is best suited and necessary for the methods they wish to pursue. I also feel that whatever they buy they need to learn to use it well and concentrate on it's advantages. I am continually surprised by reading posts that reveal the owners/users of some fine equipment that clearly have not mastered its full potential yet. Scopes and rangefinders are among the top items taken for granted.

Jeff
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  #184  
Old 03-15-2013, 05:39 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
I am continually surprised by reading posts that reveal the owners/users of some fine equipment that clearly have not mastered its full potential yet.
Jeff
Thats EXACTLY how I feel about my wife!
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  #185  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:35 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
I agree it is very evident many of the deciding factors are "personal preferences" and a new user should look hard at the differences and decide what is best suited and necessary for the methods they wish to pursue. I also feel that whatever they buy they need to learn to use it well and concentrate on it's advantages. I am continually surprised by reading posts that reveal the owners/users of some fine equipment that clearly have not mastered its full potential yet. Scopes and rangefinders are among the top items taken for granted.

Jeff
Very true!

Scot E.
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  #186  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:35 PM
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Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

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Originally Posted by mildot1960 View Post
Bros, I have seen the same Reticle design's in SFP Scopes as those here in the FFP pictures, So surely with all those windage and eleivation marks, they would both be able to do the same as what some are calling Quick Shots,

I agree that the concept of FFP is a cool idea, But apart from Target and crosshair staying as a matched size to eachother then there is no other real issue/benifit here, Which means this all goes back to the first comments by you and Orkan, that the bottom line is IT's all about personal choice

As I have said before regarding the price, since these things have been on sale all that has happend is that another $1000 plus has been added on to the price because its something new and alot of it Is people wanting to be the first in the club to Own/Have one and with some it's because they are trying to get better at shooting, I have seen both examples at differant gun clubs,

I've seen guys who were fairly resonable shots spend over $1200 on a .22 getting work done on it and fitting a 6-$700 Leupold scope on it and yet someone with a $150 Rifle and a $65 scope win the shoot,
My point is an Aston Martin is not going to turn anyone in to James Bond,
And no mater what you spend is not going to help, its like other people have said here already, IT's what you prefer and how you put your particular skills/scope to work.

john
Yes, ballistic style reticles can theoretically do the same in an FFP or SFP scope assuming you keep the SFP scope at its calibrated power. Things you must do though.
1. Measure the subtentions at the calibrated power to make sure they match up correctly. It is commonly believed that they come from the manf. calibrated correctly, many of them, including some high end ones don't.
2. If you are going to use a lower power, say for example half of the calibrated power, in order to double the subtention amounts, you must also calibrate at that power level to make sure that everything is matched up. This is almost never exactly accurate and you will have to find the correct power were your subtensions are correct and mark you own point so you can return to it consistently. Many people don't realize that scope rated 5-20 isn't exactly 5-20 power. It may be 4.5-19 or 5.3-19.7. So you don't start out exactly correct and the power numbers on the adjustment knob are seldom perfect. This is one of the reasons SFP scopes are not ideal for holding over, because power adjustment affects subtension measurements whereas with an FFP scope it has no influence. Again, it can be done but you just have to be careful and know what you are doing. I personally don't like the error that is introduced by the whole concept I described and is part of the reason I first tried FFP.

Not that you specifically asked this but there are some benefits for not having to shoot on high power all the time. If there is any mirage high power can get you in trouble. I personally don't like the narrow field of view and critical eyebox that max power gives me. I also don't like the reduced image quality that you will get as the power increases. And you have this issue on most scopes to some degree. I only ever use as much power as I need to make the shot, nothing more. But this is a luxury only FFP allows, unless you are dial wind and elevation shooter, which I am not.

A couple points of interest. FFP scopes aren't new. Their popularity is new in the US because SFP has been what we were offered as an option for the most part. But our European counterparts have been just as diehard about FFP as we have in the US about SFP. And in the US FFP has been available just not popular so there weren't many options. Part of that was the technology of old wasn't as kind to FFP as it was to SFP so that made the FFP drawbacks more considerable. Now we are seeing the differences shrink. Also, FFP scopes are more expensive to make. I am not stating that all of the price difference is cost of build but some of it certainly is.

Also, I understand your premise about the expensive gun vs the cheap gun. But I think you may be missing the bigger picture. Put the expensive gun into the hand of the better shooter that was using the cheaper gun and you would likely see him improve his score or groups. So skill definitely matters but so does a finely tuned instrument. Add the 2 together and you have it all!

Scot E.
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  #187  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:05 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 180
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

I agree Scot 100%, Today I have spent a few hours on NF's site and it has opened my eyes a fair bit and I like the concept even more and the build quality is from another world, incredable craftsmanship,

My example of the VERY average shooter spending big Dollars on that .22 setup was from someone that I knew of who was very upset at the fact his new rig did'nt help and after this happend a few times I then told him what was going wrong, needless to say he soon went up a grade,

After I pickup the Bushnell 6500 Elite, I think I will be playing with the NF 3.5-15x50 F1 NXS,
I like to buy military scopes because if they are Soldier Proof then there's got to be some good about them ONLY because as a Deployment Grade sight they dont have many weak points,

Don't get me Wrong, I still my SFP scopes but just like I use differant rifles for differant tasks I want to Put the right sights on them

Oh, and thanks for the info, John
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  #188  
Old 03-16-2013, 08:11 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Idaho
Posts: 1,148
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot1960 View Post
I agree Scot 100%, Today I have spent a few hours on NF's site and it has opened my eyes a fair bit and I like the concept even more and the build quality is from another world, incredable craftsmanship,

My example of the VERY average shooter spending big Dollars on that .22 setup was from someone that I knew of who was very upset at the fact his new rig did'nt help and after this happend a few times I then told him what was going wrong, needless to say he soon went up a grade,

After I pickup the Bushnell 6500 Elite, I think I will be playing with the NF 3.5-15x50 F1 NXS,
I like to buy military scopes because if they are Soldier Proof then there's got to be some good about them ONLY because as a Deployment Grade sight they dont have many weak points,

Don't get me Wrong, I still my SFP scopes but just like I use differant rifles for differant tasks I want to Put the right sights on them

Oh, and thanks for the info, John
If you like Bushnell don't forget to look at their tactical line. They are top notch as well. I have had really good luck with Bushnell.

Good luck!

Scot E.!
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  #189  
Old 03-16-2013, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 180
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Hi Scot yes I will, I have just downloaded thei catalog thanks, last night chased down some price's on NF and Premier scopes and they are a joke over here, The NF Beast 5-25x50 is $4492.50 and thats just crazy and all the Premier scopes are $3577.50 and up, the New Steiner 5-25z56 is $3900.00, As I came over here from Oz one thing that I have noticed that all they do here is change the Dollar sign to a pound sign and plus their 20% vat (sales tax) it doubles the price, Crazy, I'm thinking of crossing the pond to hunt and go shopping and I'd still have money to spare,

thanks Mate, John
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