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First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

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Unread 03-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hot Springs, South Dakota
Posts: 530
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

"Perhaps I should have learned when to back down from a fight? It's a skill I've never been good at."

I think there is alot of that going around. I know us South Dakotans are made that way.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 11:41 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SW Montana
Posts: 5,652
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

You know this site used to have very stiff discussions, very good info used to come out of them, feelers got hurt but that's going to be apart of any strong conversation. This site has been lacking stiff debate and discussion, I don't agree with Orkan but he's made me do a lot of research and I do applaud him for hanging in there, I have much more interest in sponsors that are engaged in debate on the forum than the ones that simply post stuff for sale and get out!!
"Pain is weakness leaving your body"
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Unread 03-08-2013, 11:52 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huron, SD
Posts: 353
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
I have much more interest in sponsors that are engaged in debate on the forum than the ones that simply post stuff for sale and get out!!
Thanks bigngreen... That is my thought exactly.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: east central fl. /n.c. pa.
Posts: 815
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

about 35 years ago i was sitting on one of our pa lookouts glassing for deer
along with my then young son. i found a small rack buck at about 750 and was going to let my son shoot it. or at least at it. i got him on the deer with his glasses then i got on the gun to find it in the scope. (we use portable benches for the most part in pa) after i got the gun on the deer i was going to get back on my glasses and spot for him.
about the time i was ready the buck dropped and slid down the hill aways.
a second later we heard the shot. i knew some other hunters were on another lookout up the valley from us. awhile later we saw a couple guys on their way up to retreive the deer. looking thru my large tripod mounted glasses it wasent a problem recognising one of them. that evening we went to their camp to break stones about shooting (our) deer. i was introduced to the shooter who just happened to be dick thomas. dick was the father of the present owner of premier reticles. i had spoken with him numerous times by phone and had him do work on scopes for me prior to that. at that point he only worked on leupolds. he installed quite a few multible dot reticles in scopes for me and others i know including larry the camp owner.
im still using those scopes today. the dots increase in size as power is raised. for that reason he would always ask what power we wanted to use for the dot size. i always chose 10x even on the higher magnification scopes. i remember very well dick discussing first vs second focal plane. frankly it meant nothing to me. frankly it still dosent.
i can tell you more bucks were killed in pa back then then are now regardless
of the great new scopes. reason of coarse there were more deer.
the vast majority of kills are under 1000 yds.
in pa at least theres a good reason for that.
most times conditions are such that seeing game beyond that distance is difficult even with very good glasses.
so at least from my viewpoint the discussion here is just that, a discussion.
theres very little practicle reason for the argument.
for the average guy who just wants to kill an animal at long range all of this means absolutly nothing. there are lots of quality scopes out there that are more than adequate for the job. including some very old ones.
by the way i do own a very large 338 into which i stuff 137 gr of powder.
on top of it is an 8x32 nightforce. and it would be the first one id throw overboard if forced to choose.
having fun shooting at rocks is one thing.
but if you like the taste of gravey thats another thing.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 07:31 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
Posts: 8,588
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

Originally Posted by Broz View Post
My comments about me not selling scopes was meant to show I am open to discussion without being sided. Not to discredit you. Sorry if you thought otherwise. .

Originally Posted by orkan View Post
Then be a man and apologize for insinuating over and over that I will push an ideal simply to sell a product.
I did that first thing this am. See my self-quoted post above that I posted before you asked for it.

Originally Posted by orkan View Post
Because its the SFP crowd claiming FFP can't get it done in certain situations...
I never said this at all., I don't think anyone did, at least not in this thread. I only stated what I prefer to use and why. Is that wrong?

Originally Posted by orkan View Post
There came a point when I truly stopped listening to anything he had to say..
I believe this 100% and I feel it was way early on. You keep saying you are upset because people say that SFP's will do things that FFP can't "pull off".. Orkin please reconsider this statement. I never said that, I said I prefer SFP and stated reasons why. I never said a shot could not be made with FFP. I only said I would be prefer a SFP in some instances (most in my type of shooting / hunting) The only exception is the mechanical difference in the relationship of the reticle size to target size and I stated I felt FFP was backwards for my needs and SFP worked better for my type of use. The SFP covers more target at low magnification and less target at high magnification. I prefer that for reasons already stated.. Really!! That is what I said.

I do tend to inset jokes and I will for the second time apologize if you feel it was an attack. But really, who needs to "man up"??

Now............................................... ............................

This discussion has got some wheels turning in my head. I plan to set out and do some testing for my own satisfaction and will post up here. I will post pictures if I can so all can see what I am interested in. I feel it will be good for all and this discussion. So I am still in this discussion and think there could be more good come from it. Orkin, I am not asking you to continue , nor asking you to be silent. That is a decision that is totally up to you. Makes no difference to me either way.

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Unread 03-08-2013, 08:48 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 411
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

I got my Viper ffp mounted and sighted in today. The cross hairs do get thick the best I can tell it coveres about 3/4" maybe 1"at 200 yards on 24x. At 500yds I set up a Qt paint can and had no problem seeing or hitting it. I can't see where it will be a big problem deer hunting. I like FFP so far. I can't see any drawbacks yet. Only time will tell.
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Unread 03-08-2013, 09:16 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW MT
Posts: 3,041
Re: First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

There was a poll on here and sfp rules this site.It may be different at the Hide,Im not there much,but more tactical crowd.I went ffp a number of years back and now I want all ffp.There has been more ffp showing up and more demand.Which is good for me because more product at a better price for me also.
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