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fastest 338 without the Cheytac

 
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  #1  
Old 09-18-2010, 08:22 PM
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fastest 338 without the Cheytac

I have a friend contemplating a 338 build with the following criteria:
-rifle to weigh no more than 10 1/2 pounds
-28" barrel
-able to take game at a mile. ( he has already taken game at 1350yards)
I know the EDGE will do it, as I have seen where Shawn posted a kill at over a mile, but my friend is lookinfg to get alittle foregiveness on the wind read with something faster.
The Cheytac case is out as it will push the build over his weight limit, as this will be a carry rifle.
I would like to get some feedback based on this criteria.
Will the Lapua AI or EDGE AI be the ticket, or would going to the 338-378 Weatherby ?
All coments welcome.
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2010, 09:56 PM
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Re: fastest 338 without the Cheytac

I believe Kirby's (Fiftydriver's) 338 AX built on his Lightweight Raptor action will fill the bill for you nicely. I'll let you know when I get mine.

Jim
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:06 PM
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Re: fastest 338 without the Cheytac

Ya Id bet one of Kirby's hot rods would fit the bill. AX, or AM. But the 338-378 would probably work too.
Im sorry Im not more current on hot rod 338's, but Kirby and LTLR have a ton of experience with them in just about any configuration ever concieved I think.
Maybe one or both will chime in soon..........
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:27 PM
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Re: fastest 338 without the Cheytac

Sent a long pm. But basically the 338-416 imp is about the best for a mile and only 150 or so fps off the chey-tac 338 wildcats. The 378 imp is right there also. The fastest one I ever worked with was the 338-416 imp. Problem is it will not fit the criteria as well because of the weight limits. It is nearly impossible to shoot a light rifle accurately at a mile. The lapua wildcats do well in shorter barrels much more so than the big 378 and 416 cases. A beefed up 26" barrel may be in order on a lapua based wildcat that loses very little velocity and retains accuracy well in the shorter barrels. A 28" barrel that stays within the 10 1/2 pound criteria I think will be to flimsy to go out to a mile. A beefed up 26" tube may fit the criteria better. The 338 norma on the shortenned lapua was designed for just this purpose and may be worth looking into. I have never shot it.

My improved 338 lapua got right at 3000 fps in a 28" barrel. It was very similar to the one kirby does with the shoulder pushed slightly forward and blown out with a sharper shoulder angle. I think I could have got 2900 fps with it in a beefed up 26" barrel and been deadly. That is where I would go I think. Be an interesting build. Like I say the rifle can do it but to shoot that light a rifle accurately at a mile would be extreme.
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:35 PM
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Re: fastest 338 without the Cheytac

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue View Post
I have a friend contemplating a 338 build with the following criteria:
-rifle to weigh no more than 10 1/2 pounds
-28" barrel
-able to take game at a mile. ( he has already taken game at 1350yards)
I know the EDGE will do it, as I have seen where Shawn posted a kill at over a mile, but my friend is lookinfg to get alittle foregiveness on the wind read with something faster.
The Cheytac case is out as it will push the build over his weight limit, as this will be a carry rifle.
I would like to get some feedback based on this criteria.
Will the Lapua AI or EDGE AI be the ticket, or would going to the 338-378 Weatherby ?
All coments welcome.
338-416 Rigby?

Some comments above. Seems like I typically see Kirby talk about getting 50-75 fps or so more out of the 338-378 Weatherby than the 338 Lap Imp, but brass life is apprently terrible as it's soft AND it's expensive. From what I gathered, I'd probably go with the 338-416 Rigby (no belt, not that that is much of a big deal, just size to headspace off the shoulder, not the belt) over a 338-378 Weatherby, but I'd still take the 338 Lap Imp or 338 Lap AI over the others. My 338 AX is pushing the 300SMK at 2980fps out of a 30" barrel over 102g Retumbo and Kirby's 'modified hybrid' throat. Good enough for me and I expect many reloads. Just took my first big game animal with it last week.
Washington State High Buck Hunt 2010 I thought about this build and asked alot of questions for alot of years. My rifle is probably right at 10.5 lbs w/o the NF NSX--every component ('cept the NF) was carefully picked to be as lightweight at possible and still be a lr hammer.
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  #6  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:38 PM
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Re: fastest 338 without the Cheytac

Jim/Trueblue

Can you clarify if the 10.5 lb is with optics, ACI, level, bipod, sling, and if a carbon barrel is in the budget?

The 338 Excalibur will be the largest piece of brass you can put a bullet on top of without going to a Cheytac class action. 3082 fps with a 300 SMK and a 31.25" barrel was were accuracy was found for mine using H50BMG. US869 and WC872 yielded more velocity potential, but I haven't invested the time to see where accuracy came together for those powders and that cartridge.

Jamison now makes brass for this round. I got dies from Neil Jones. Simply stated, it holds 140 grains of water vs. 126 in my 40 deg 338 LMAI. In longer barrels/slower powders, it will outstep the Lapua Improved. In shorter barrels, the velocity advantage slims down some, and if you factor in the cost/brass life of the Lapua brass vs. Jamison, the edge goes to the Lapua in a 28" barrel.

I believe Dave Viers has built some 11 lb Cheytacs using carbon barrels and Lone Wolf Stocks, so you may want to give those folks a ring before ruling out the Cheytac option for your goals.

Since he's already connected at 1350 yards (hats off to that, as that is a ways, and involves many variables that he's obviously has nailed down), he probably also realizes that at those distances, each 100 yards becomes a new monumental task to be successful at cold bore first round hits. I know I simply don't have the skill (yet), to manage recoil of a 10.5 lb rifle for 1350 yards cold bore first round hits.

For now a rough rule of thumb I've come to appreciate when building a rifle towards a specific precision goal is.... 100 yards for each lb of rifle (ready to shoot), so a 1 mile gun for me, would need to come in around 17-18 lbs. My 30-338 Lapua pushing a 210 Berger at 3300 fps comes in at 12 lbs, and I feel confident with it in ideal conditions to 1200 yards. The 338 LMAI is a new to me rifle, but it comes in around 14.5 lbs, and I can see me capping it's potential at 14-1500 yards. There's just a lot going on during that recoil impulse to manage perfectly everytime in my book...especially when you're talking 300 grain bullets at 2800-3000+ fps. Certaily there are folks that can shoot light rifles way out there, I'm just not that good. This is just my two cents, not looking to mash any toes, or offend any light rifle LR shooters/hunters.

I'll post up some more once you post the answers to the questions I posted on the first line of this lengthy post
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2010, 12:13 AM
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Re: fastest 338 without the Cheytac

Autorotate, I thought about the excalibur although I have never shot it. The reason I didn't list it is because like the 378 and 416 case I feel that it would not do as well with the short barrel as the lapua based wildcats. Those big powder guzzlers are for sure the best ones to shoot a mile with but like long barrels to utilize all that slow burning powder. The efficient case design of the lapua based wildcats may be better in the short barrel required to meet the specs. I have experience with those and they do very well with the short barrels. I am not familiar with the carbon barrels being accurate enough to shoot a mile either. I think it may take a fat 26" barrel to be most accurate at a mile and that would require a very efficient case design. I am no guru on this but offer that opinion. If the carbon barrels work out they will be the go to thing for light hunting rifles with long range capability. But like I said, it is extremely difficult to shoot a light rifle long range.
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