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Extreme long range training

 
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  #1  
Old 03-31-2007, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Extreme long range training

I've been communicating with Dean Michaelis about having a training here in Flagstaff in early May. We will be working on 2000+ yd shooting with 1 day classroom and 3 days field shooting.
Dean is considered one of the best trainers in the country, most of you know him here on this site as triggerfifty.

Cost will depend on the number but will be between $700 and $500, limit is 10 participants.

Let me know, there are 6 spots open.

Ross

http://snipersparadise.com/snipercha...howtopic=16448
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2007, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 920
Re: Extreme long range training

[ QUOTE ]
Dean is considered one of the best trainers in the country...

[/ QUOTE ]

By who?

No one that I know - Dean was considered a dipstick by his supervisors in the military, and they were glad to get rid of him.

He was an embarrassment in the Chey-Tac thing, and since then he has been promoting himself as a SOF???

He teaches classes and one or two newbees show up - most of the classes are canceled, because of "secret ops demands" on his time ???.

He bragged about constantly shooting 6" groups at 1,000 with a Savage 308, and when challenged on it, he said it was on his computer program???

When called on his shooting ability by a group of long range shooters, he said ANYTIME ANYWHERE, so they agreed to a shoot in his own backyard in Idaho, and he punked out [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Dean is a legend in his own mind.

.
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LRH member #23
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2007, 01:16 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Re: Extreme long range training

By Who?

By the CheyTac folks (John, Dave) that I personally have spoken to about him, By Barney Lawton who makes many of the 375/408, By the various folks who have evaluated the classes after their personal participation.

Universally agreed that Dave is a bit opinionated, but also universally agreed that he is good at what he teaches, well except you.

Best,
Ross
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2007, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 920
Re: Extreme long range training

This is classic Dean - [ QUOTE ]
"6 July Ė Overview. The training was attended to 2 shooters. At the last minute, several shooters canceled due to other commitments. The date of this shoot was released late and didnít live much time for shooters to arrange for time off etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

People with "other commitments" don't cancel at the last minute - they don't register for it because they have other commitments - and Dean advertised this course for many months, all over the net, so saying that the attendance was poor because of last minute notice is pure BS - but then, how does Dean explain giving a course that only two people came to???

I had exchanged a number of e-mails with "Dr. John", back when he was with the Chey-Tac group, and his opinion when I spoke to him was that Dean was a "problem" to the group.

Warren Jennsen, who was one of the Chey-Tac group claimed that he was a West Point educated "Ordinance Engineer", and it turned out that he was a fraud - he degree was in "Public Relations"... the bunch were smoke and mirrors.

They dropped Dean like a hot rock, shortly after the Fort
Bragg incident, where he took a .408 to "demonstrate" to the military and shot 6" groups at 100 yds, and couldn't keep his shots on the "target frame" at 1,000, and when called on it, the threatened to take people out and beat them up - a "real grown up" approach to military sales.

Later Dean went to Black Water to be an instructor, and got dumped... he couldn't keep his shots on the movers, and blamed the M-24 rifle, saying that the M-24 was a bad design and couldn't keep shots inside of 2" at 100 yds

(shot with an M-24 at 405 yards):
http://www.snipercountry.com/images/....46-target.jpg

Dean hyped the 408 Chey-Tac for 4 or 5 years as the best thing since smokeless powder... after they dumped him, he trashed Chey-Tac for the past year or two on his website, saying that the .338 Lap and the 50 BMG were by far better cartridges - now his website is down and gone...

Dean has no ethics and would sell swamp land to a church.

And Dean has no real world credentials. He has continually ducked open competitions and all shooting challenges - his "references" come from a small circle of acquaintances.

.
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2007, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Re: Extreme long range training

I really don't know what to say. I have no personal experience with him but there is sure a mixed bag of comments. I have only gotten positive feedback about his abilities and lots of "issues" about his people skills.
I appreciate your warning, on the other hand when even the guys he has offended compliment him on his skills, like I said I don't understand.

Anybody have first hand experience with what he teaches?
Ross
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  #6  
Old 04-03-2007, 11:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 27
Re: Extreme long range training

It's a little surprising that this training is regarded negatively here on LRH, and yet there are now 3 pages of positive remarks from people who have attended his training on
http://www.snipershide.net/forum/ubb...e=1#Post142540

Check it out for yourself.

Ross
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,369
Re: Extreme long range training

Ross

I just read the thread you linked here, I see 23 posts, 5 of which are yours, 2 folks say they've attended and were pleased the remaining folks are pretty much just chatting and wishing.

I don't see that thread as overwhelming support or approval.

I don't personally know Dean but have seen and read many of his posts around the web, he does have a way of drawing some controversy. I will also say that I have not seen any hard evidence that would positively convinced me that he can do what he claims.

I've dealt with Lost River Ballistics and tested some of their bullets in a direct test with Warren Jensen. Warren was very decent about the test and generous with his support, the test we conducted were more educational the practical use, a test of polygonal rifling and monolithic bullets.

Extreme long range shooting is a little different especially if we're talking about first round hits. If you have the basics of long range shooting mastered you can progress to extreme long range without being completely frustrated. It is a stepwise increase in difficulty with a considerable increase in the significance of environmental and other factors (ambient temp, pressure, departure angle, cant, etc).

Although I personally don't have any desire to attend long range shooting classes for rifles I have shot to distance just a few yards short of a mile, I would consider this extreme long range. What I view as the draw for a class such as offered is the opportunity to spend some quality time on a rifle with the possibility of a person of equal or superior knowledge present to provide a little guidance. I believe a person could possibly gain as much useful information and experience just spending a few days shooting varmints with a seasoned long range shooter. I guess what I'm headed toward is that a fella needs to get out and shoot, practice (quality practice) with someone a little better and more experienced... doing so with Dean may be an option, I'd personally pick someone else.
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