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Difference in custom guns....

 
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2013, 04:53 PM
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Location: Vandergrift PA
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Re: Difference in custom guns....

Just my .02
*Good factory gun $600-999 - Great for the person that doesn't load or is a novice loader.
*Semi Custom gun $999-1599 - Great for person that is a regular reloader and up.
*full Custom gun $1599-and UP - Great for the ultra presision loader.

If you spend $5000 on a gun and shoot factory ammo or just do very basic reloading then the money wasn't well spent. Most of the money spent is on getting the gun built to your specs (short throat, tight neck, short chambered, etc)
If you know what you want and utilize all the equipment to it's fullest when loading then your getting what you paid for.
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  #9  
Old 03-29-2013, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central MT
Posts: 720
Re: Difference in custom guns....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korhil78 View Post
All I am saying is that the custom will do it on a more consistant basis than the factory rifle. A lot of people say that their factory rifle shoots .5 MOA everytime but I am betting that it doesnt. I used to think that I had one that shot .5MOA groups everytime until I started logging all of my shots and saw that it was not as consistant as I thought.

I took one of my factory $1K rifles to an F-class LR match last year just for the practice and to see how well I could shoot compared to some of the best around the region. I had top score in my class for the first two days and finished well the third. I would say my factory rifle shoots just aey o kay compared to some of those customs that were on the range. Yes customs have a better probaiblity of achieving the precision you are looking for and some factory rifles will do the same. For those factory rifles that don't, post them in your local paper.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2013, 11:32 PM
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Re: Difference in custom guns....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMERSS View Post
I took one of my factory $1K rifles to an F-class LR match last year just for the practice and to see how well I could shoot compared to some of the best around the region. I had top score in my class for the first two days and finished well the third. I would say my factory rifle shoots just aey o kay compared to some of those customs that were on the range. Yes customs have a better probaiblity of achieving the precision you are looking for and some factory rifles will do the same. For those factory rifles that don't, post them in your local paper.

Dont get me wrong...I am definitely not disagreeing with you at all. There are some factory rifles that will do that but they are very few and far between.
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2013, 08:47 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
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Re: Difference in custom guns....

I can not argue with any ones opinion so far on the type of rifle a person needs (Factory or custom)

I have owned 3 factory rifles in the last 40 years that shot 1/10 of an inch groups @ 100 yards, so there
are factory rifles that can shoot good but they are hard to find with that level of accuracy.

A factory rifle that will shoot 1 to 1 1/2 MOA are more common and as someone said if you don't
have a problem with that level of accuracy and don't reload, a factory rifle is OK with limited distance
hunting.

The advantage of 1/2 moa or better at the shorter distances it the ability to place the shot exactly
where you want it. If you want to take a turkey a 200+yards and don't want to blow him up
you take a head shot. (This should not be attempted with a 1MOA+ rifle). sometimes you need to
take a shot that will drop the game where he stands so it is recoverable at long distance. A 1 to 1 1/2
MOA rifle will not do and the shot should not be attempted.

So if a person buys a factory rifle he needs to know its limitations.

As far as the custom rifle; I expect better than 1/2 MOA from any custom and with good reloads,
this is not impossible to get. I am OK with 3/10th MOA groups but not satisfied and keep looking
for a better load. I may never find the "magic" load but I don't give up, I just don't try as hard
at some point.

One cannot compare a Factory rifle to a custom because they are as different as apples and oranges
Factory rifles are mass produced and most if all have some issues with quality control. If they only
have one or two problems they may shoot well. If they have many problems they will not shoot worth
a $#!t . I have never disassembled a factory rifle that did not have issues of some kind.

Custom Rifles are/should be built one at a time and the chance of a quality issue are small to none
so you do get what you pay for. with all the right parts and good Smithing most of the time they
will amaze you and normally out shoot the shooter if he will admit it.

I do believe that one can buy a $2,000.00 custom that will shoot with the $8,000.00 rifles. After all,
If you buy the best barrel, trigger, a trued/blueprinted or custom action, a good stock with pillars
and bedding along with good smithing what else can be done to drive the price up to $8 to $10,000.00

So buy what you want and be happy with it no matter what it cost.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2013, 09:06 AM
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Re: Difference in custom guns....

Informative thread for sure.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2013, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South West Montana
Posts: 270
Re: Difference in custom guns....

Well here is my 2 cents on the subject...for what its worth

I used to shoot competitive archery with traditional equipment. Now you want to talk about a bunch of fellas proud of thier custom equipment

And you know what I learned its the wingnut behind the string that makes the diffrence!!!! All the money in the world doesn't matter if you can't shoot.

I agree that a off the shelf rifle probably won't in its orignal state shoot with a 10,000 custom rifle, but I have seen 1500 dollar guns blow the doors off full on customs in the right hands.

What I see with true custom rifles are the chance to own working art. You need to appreciate the work and dedication that went into the rifle and having the best components money can buy sure doesn't hurt, but I for one don't have deep enough pockets to own a 5000-10000 work of art, but dont tell that to my targets!
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2013, 01:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central MT
Posts: 720
Re: Difference in custom guns....

Factory or custom each shooter will have their own personal views toward what performance degree they are willing to accept with each characteristic in their rifle.

Precision while long range hunting in my personal perspective takes the back seat to accuracy. A five shot 1" 1000 yard group shot fifteen inches from center is five shots that missed the intended resting-place by fifteen inches. Cool precision to look at on paper, not so cool on a deer. A 1 MOA factory gun with the shooter able to center five shots on the target (accuracy) in my opinion achieved better results than the .1 MOA custom gun as above with the intent of big game hunting purposes. For hunting purposes try no to get so wrapped up just in the precision capability of a gun either custom or factory and the cost associated without first learning and experiencing what changes mother nature will take on a bullet in long flight and more importantly how to correct for these changes.

To me, and this is just my personal opinion backed by my own personal experience, matching accuracy and precision together for long range hunting (800 yards +) is where a full on custom comes into play. There are other reasons people choose a custom and Im portraying my reasoning why and when I choose the full on custom. Each will have their own. For the most part we can anticipate and control to certain degrees the precision potential of the gun/shooter/ammo combo. If you have been consistently shooting MOA equivalent groups in field practice, one could assume most of the time that degree of precision while hunting will continue. Conditional confidence, or your confidence in predicting accurate atmospheric and wind speed conditions as applied to your corrections, is directly related to accuracy. This is where most errors are made while shooting long range. For the most part you can control the target size. I want to shoot the vitals of a moose, a deer, a gopher etc. You can control the level of precision. I must have a MOA potential gun or better. But you can only predict Mother Nature so much. If we could all the time almost all of the F-Class strings would be perfect scores. Heck the 10 ring is 10" at 1000; will enough for a MAO gun right? Then why are some of the best shooters in the world not cleaning all their strings?

I would highly recommend reading the book "Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting," by Bryan Litz. Bryan takes a scientific approach with predicting the probability of hitting certain sized targets under different condition confidence. The book includes a chapter specifically on hunting big game. Generally under the same conditional confidence and precision potential same hit probability ranges increase with a higher BC bullet combined with quicker velocities. What example does Bryan use as his "book end" in the big game hunting section? The 338 Allen Magnum. Yes, the 338 Allen Magnum is my choice for a full on custom. A full on custom in this gun is the ONLY choice. Only one smith makes this gun. Each of you will have your own choice for your specific reasons. I have my full on custom choice for my specific reason, a very well made gun with the best components pushing a very high BC bullet at very high velocities. Sure will help me with those 800+ ranges when I unfortunately misread Mother Nature. Custom in this case, all the way.
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