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delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

 
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2004, 03:03 PM
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Location: California
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

George, Chris,

Thanks for taking time our of your schedules to share info with us.

As you both know, I have been wanting a 338 for a while now.

I have a few questions.

What is the Barrel life of the 338RUM/338LAP

What are the average velocity's one could expect?

Is one inheritly more accurate than the other?

Thanks again
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  #16  
Old 01-06-2004, 03:12 PM
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

More questions?

The Armalite AR30...What are your thoughts on the actions?

Are they worth the effort to rebarrel?
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2004, 06:17 PM
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

DC,
Let me take another angle from George,
In a way you are right, if I was building a LRH or ultra LRH or a 1000 yard bench gun, I wouldn't use a Remmy. It would be Nesika all the way. However, I do build long range sniping, tactical whatever you want to call them rifles in 338 Lapua in Remmys in A2,3,4, and 5s, HTG, etc. Not bench guns, but still plenty capable.
Anyway, I don't need a Lapua for 1000 BR, I got a 6.5 WSM! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Oh which I have specially blended powder under a full moon with three witches and a guy from Toledo! My secret weapon! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2004, 07:33 PM
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

My brother and I have run both these 700's up over 70k psi more than just a few times, mine is actually currently running right at 70k psi with this 90gr RL25 load with a 210 JLK. We have had ZERO lug setback, not one iota, so go figure...

He backed his load down to 3000 fps for accuracy, mine happens to be doing real well at that level for some reason or another.

The advantage of a custom -

NO ejector for brass to flow into at over 70k psi = easy opening bolt if it were to be enough happen.

BUT, primer pockets will go to hell immediatly and camming out the brass will too at much over 72k psi with Norma, Remington or other brass, this 338 Lapua brass IS holding up well at 70k psi. So really, the capability to run higher than 72k psi or so is not much if your brass only survives once or twice in the hot seat. Unless you're DC and don't mind. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Pressure is not an issue... Point to the ones that proves me wrong. Your brass will fail before it ever happens, anyone that's reloaded long knows it's the weak point. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2004, 08:07 PM
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

George and others

I personally would rather put a few extra bucks in a "good" custom heavy built action with 3 lugs or larger lugs then the Remington has.

By the time a person buys a rem action and has all the alteration work done to it to accomodate the larger case heads, you could almost buy a Custom action. Why even fool with the Rem.???

For instance, a person buys a Rem action for $350.00 to $500.00.
George, what is the cost to make the bolt alteration for the big case (378 size), true the action completely, Sako extractor and a bolt extension?
Just the way the custom would come.

Now lets remember another point, the Custom actions, Nesika, Hall "G", BAT, Geskie all have a much longer barrel threading area for more barrel support and is very desirable to most shooters. You can never get that from a Rem.

Is it really worth the cost and effort to go with a Rem. action on a Large case, even though you do it?

I would certainly trust a Custom action more so with a big case such as the 338/416 Rigby Imp using 300 gr bullets, before I ever would a Rem.

I run velocity in the 37" barrel (300 Gr Bullets) from my 338/416 RIGBY imp as high as 3310 FPS. 122.5 Grs of WC
No way would the REM handle that load or not with me pulling the trigger anyway.

Brents right, I get two loadings out of that load mentioned above. When I back it down to 117 Gr and 3200 FPS I get up to 7 loadings.
When I'm on a hunting trip out west, I don't really care about a few pieces of brass. That's the least expensive part of my trip.

I would advise anyone on the forum to put a few more bucks into their action choice and buy a good Custom to accomdate the large cases such as the 338/378, 338/416 RIG IMP especially if planning on using the 300 gr bullets.
There are a few 320 Gr 338 Bullets floating around also.
Later
DC [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2004, 03:11 AM
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

PSI and case head diameter determine bolt thrust, bullet weight makes NO difference what so ever, and Darryl has been told this. 50gr and a 500gr bullets at 70k psi will pruduce the SAME thrust on the bolt. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

If I dropped my powder charge by 5.5gr like that, I'd hope for AT LEAST 5 more loadings too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Heck, that'd be a starting load.

I've run the same pressure (70k psi) on about 10% of my cases for a total of 4 loadings now and have felt slight resistance opening the bolt only this last time out on a few of them. The other 90% of the cases I'm using have had a few mild loads through them but mainly mid to high to hot loads, and I can tell no difference between any of them, and unless I overexpand the caseheads and they get tight on me, these cases will last a long damn time at this pressure.

Interesting, when I ran up another 7gr in the 30-338 Lapua Imp using Retumbo and a 210gr JLK, 90gr to 97gr, I gained 352 fps...
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2004, 08:20 AM
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Re: delemma...what 338 chambered rifle to start with?

Now lets take the pressures on up a tad to say 75000 or 80000 and see what the cases do.
Remember the Lapua is "NOT" as big as the 378 or 416 Rigby IMP cases which I am mainly refering to.

True the Lapua cases are very good but, so are the Norma cases in the big stuff. The big stuff I'm refering to again are the 378 Weatherby and the 416 Rigby Imp size cases (mainly), which the Lapua Imp does not compare, as per case capacity.

7 grs of powder increase in a large chambered "30 Cal" bore to gain 300 FPS, that's about right, until you reach a certain point and with certain powders.

The "Main" point Brent is missing here is;
Why fool with a Remington action (which I have several guns chambered on) using cases such as 378 and 416 Rigby IMP, when for very little increase in money, a person can have a custom action which has much better quality, tolerances and strength then any Remington would have?

This decision, each Longrange hunter or 1000 yard Compitition shooter "MUST" consider before jumping into the 378 or 416 size cases.
Again, I certainly would NOT put those size cases or the smaller 338 Lapua on a Remington action, but, that's just my opinion and those who have been in this longrange game longer then me.
I'm including the thoughts of the well known gunsmiths Howard Wolfe and Bruce Baer who have both built World Record 1000 yard compitition and Longrange hunting guns to.

Everyone has the right to chamber anything they want to, "if" they can get a smith to take the responsibility.
For "my" money and piece of mind when using the 416 Rigby IMP and heavy loads such as 122.5 grs, I will be using a large custom action.

You fellows make your own decision but, remember the problems that you "could" experiance because you didn't spend another $200.00 to $400.00 for a real good action.

Remember I'm mainly refering to cases the size of the 378 Weatherby, the 378 Weatherby IMP and the 416 Rigby IMP here and NOT the smaller standard mags.
I guess we can include the 338 Lapua IMP also but it has much less powder capacity then the above mentioned cases do.

Later
DC [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-07-2004: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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