Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Reply

Cut rifling vs button rifling

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #15  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:51 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Alaska
Posts: 3,344
stress - then stress relieved

I'm curious - why the concern that stress is caused by the button rifling process itself if the stress is relieved before the button-rifled barrel leaves the manufacturer's facility? To my knowledge, all button rifled barrels are stress relieved after the rifling is set in the bore.

Does anyone know if button-rifled or cut-rifled barrels win more bench rest competitions? Seems like that would say something about one being more precise/accurate than the other. Maybe BountyHunter will chime in...

I'm pretty sure if we ordered as many barrels as Kirby does that we'd get barrels in 9 weeks from Lilja also. Such is business. I don't believe I've ever run across a small business owner that didn't take care of their larger volume customers first, no matter what the business sold or provided. Can you blame them? Nothing wrong with maximizing your profits, shy of committing any crimes.

Interesting read and thanks for your input Kirby. I almost felt like I was "cheating" when I read your post in this thread. A wealth of information based on a wealth of experience - all in a five minute read. Nice of you to share your experiences with those of us that may only shoot or own 10 or 20 rifles in our lifetime.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-24-2007, 04:35 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,781
Quote:
A wealth of information based on a wealth of experience - all in a five minute read. Nice of you to share your experiences with those of us that may only shoot or own 10 or 20 rifles in our lifetime.
That's what I told him about sharing all that great info. and he told me he talked too much! LOL

Kirby is a good guy... most of the time! LOL
__________________
-----------------------------

-----------------------------
HEBREWS 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-24-2007, 09:50 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fredericksburg VA
Posts: 4,109
Ok here goes.

I am pretty sure that if you read the match reports that most of the barrel mftrs are in there. Lot of people like cut and lot like button.

As long as stress relieved, both shoot very well. Lot of matches in short range are won by shilen, krieger and Kostyshen for example.

Not many LR shooters use Kostysten and shilens for some reason but it is not due to lack of accuracy.

One key element to also keep in mind is that cut rifled can be fluted without having to relap and heat treat the barrel unlike button rifled.

Most button rifling mftrs will flute BEFORE final lapping and not after.

I have had good luck with both button and cut rifled. If the mftr gets bad steel then it does not matter which method is used. It is really their attention to detail and putting out a quality product.

Here is another example, we had a pair shooting the new 208 AMAXs this year and could not get decent groups to BR standard. they found out that the barrel that they were using was tight while the AMAX is always on the thick side. they switched to Hart barrels at a true .308 diameter and started winning again. Not bad barrel, just bad combo of bullet and barrel.

BH
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-24-2007, 10:45 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Ok here goes.

I am pretty sure that if you read the match reports that most of the barrel mftrs are in there. Lot of people like cut and lot like button.

As long as stress relieved, both shoot very well. Lot of matches in short range are won by shilen, krieger and Kostyshen for example.

Not many long range shooters use Kostysten and shilens for some reason but it is not due to lack of accuracy.

One key element to also keep in mind is that cut rifled can be fluted without having to relap and heat treat the barrel unlike button rifled.

Most button rifling mftrs will flute BEFORE final lapping and not after.

I have had good luck with both button and cut rifled. If the mftr gets bad steel then it does not matter which method is used. It is really their attention to detail and putting out a quality product.

Here is another example, we had a pair shooting the new 208 AMAXs this year and could not get decent groups to BR standard. they found out that the barrel that they were using was tight while the AMAX is always on the thick side. they switched to Hart barrels at a true .308 diameter and started winning again. Not bad barrel, just bad combo of bullet and barrel.

BH
Good post Bounty....well said .... its more of a ford/chev and which combo works for you...Richard Schatz has a Lija that has a zillion rounds down it and it still shoots others do well with cut barrels ...
good post and BountHunter summed it up the best...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-24-2007, 10:45 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,793
Lazylab,

That really suprises me about the shipping time you are getting from Dan, Even before I had my shop open I was getting the same shipping time as I do now.

There was a period last year when they moved over to a new shop for more space that some barrel ordered took a bit longer but that has been the only real delay I have seen on many years ordering from Dan.

As far as bore diameter, yes, Lilja barrels tend to run pretty tight compared to other barrel brands, seems to be that way across the board but the 4 groove barrels seem to be the tightest from Lilja. Also, I have noticed that the large 338 barrels run very tight as well which will prevent you from getting quite as high a velocity as other brands but accuracy has always proven VERY impressive. But I would certainly agree with you, these barrels do run tight but they are built to true BR standards and that is the reason.

You are right, it is not fair to compare lower end button rifled barrels to upper end cut rifled barrels. YOu are also correct in that there are no popular low end cut rifled barrels. That, again was my point, hard to compare one grade of any product that is held to lower standards to another product that is held to a much higher level of standards.

But if you compare equal quality in both designs, there will be little if any real difference to talk about.

As far as the 375 bullets, still waiting on dies to get in.

Kirby Allen(50)
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-24-2007, 10:48 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,793
jwp475,

So from your own words, in the finished product, there is no difference between the two of them, correct???

If a button pulled barrel is stress relieved properly, why is a cut rifled barrel measureably better?

Just curious to the basis of your opinion.

Kirby Allen(50)
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-24-2007, 11:04 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Ok here goes.

One key element to also keep in mind is that cut rifled can be fluted without having to relap and heat treat the barrel unlike button rifled.

BH
BH

Not to be knit-picky but I'd like to know where or from whom you recieved that bit of info!


That one is a new one on me!
After being stress relieved, the barrel should be, for all intended purposes, relieved of all stresses. Meaning that you can machine this material without it moving or changing its dimentions,due to the stresses being released.

Last edited by steve smith; 09-24-2007 at 11:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Cut rifling vs button rifling
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cut rifling or button? jarnold37 Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 23 02-11-2011 12:10 PM
5R Rifling -Yes or No? Brown Dog Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 19 06-06-2010 03:04 PM
5-R Rifling ? REDHEAD Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 12 02-16-2010 11:09 PM
Polygonal vs. Button rifling nvairborne308 General Discussion 0 02-05-2010 04:44 PM
Difference Between Button/Cut Rifling? ovastafford Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 43 01-27-2010 09:54 PM

Current Poll
Are you on Facebook?
Yes - 46.51%
1,093 Vote
No - 19.32%
454 Votes
No, but I may join - 1.74%
41 Votes
No way, are you kidding? - 36.21%
851 Votes
Total Votes: 2,350
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC