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Curiosity?

 
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  #1  
Old 01-23-2011, 06:15 PM
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Curiosity?

So what happens when you stuff a 450grn BTHP on top of a 416 Improved casing? Is like an Allen Express kind of deal? What kind of velocities could a guy expect if he were to try such an animal in say.... a 28 to 30 inch tube? Sparked my curiosity today going through some double bore caliber brass I got as a gift a while back. Any info is appreciated.

Tank
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Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

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  #2  
Old 01-24-2011, 01:45 AM
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Re: Curiosity?

Liltank,
I've often wondered this myself. I checked a couple numbers and I think that with the .416 Wby you can get about 2700-2800fps depending on barrel length with a 400 grain bullet. I looked at RockyMountain Bulltes and they have a 450grian hutning bullet that has a B.C over .9. If the Weatherby could launch that to 2600fps or even 2500fps it would be about 3000ft/lbs energy at 1000 yards. The problem is finding high B.C hunting bullete in either .416 or .458. I look forward to see where this goes. Hopefully JE CUSTOMS chimes in, I think he has a few big ones.
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: Curiosity?

I'm kind of curious because Hornady is making a 450grn BTHP comp bullet w/ a BC of .720. I have a feeling this thing would work just fine even at slower speeds. I checked on JBM and even at 2300fps it still holds 2000+ pounds at 1000yds. So I'm thinking since there is a viable "inexpensive" (take that w/ a grain of salt) bullet might perk a later build.

Tank
__________________
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:13 AM
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Re: Curiosity?

I did quite a bit of research on the 416s because they seem to be a good all round dangerous
game caliber.

This was the opinion of what was available at the time .

I bought a fine Remington custom shop rifle for an upcoming brown bear hunt and started
testing different bullets and powders.

The 416 rem seemed to like the 325 grain bullets best and I was fine with that for bears.(Velocity
was just over 2600 ft/sec) but I wanted to use the 400 or 410 grain bullets for the big stuff and
the 400+ bullets did not like the temperature over 95 to 100o (Pressure would go up to high)
and could cause problems. the case capacity was just not enough for the bigger bullets.

The 416 Rigby has the case capacity but the cases are not very strong and limit pressure. the Rigby
does allow the use of slower burning powder and this improves the high temperature use.

Both the Remington and the Rigby can push the 400 grain between 2350 and 2400 ft/sec under
normal conditions. (But I wanted more)

The next thing available with any real advantage was the 416 Weatherby. It had everything,
powder volume, velocity, energy (And recoil) and could push a 400 grain to 2700 ft/sec .

So armed with all of this information I started looking for a modern case design that had a
capacity of almost as much as the Weatherby for high temp use (100o +) with lots of slow
burning powder.

The case that I found was a 375 RUM. Not as large as the Weatherby but with enough case
capacity for the big bullets.

There are a few wildcat or proprietary cartridges that will meet or exceed the Weatherby but
they come with there own problems and I wanted to keep things simple and reasonably
priced.

I had Hornady build my dies off the Manson reamer I had designed and was very happy with
both. I have not tried the 450 grain bullets in my 416 Buff because they were not available
at the time . but velocity with the 400 grain to date without loading it to the max has been
just over 2600 ft/sec .

With no muzzle break that is about my limit as far as recoil. My range sessions last about
20 to 25 shots and the fun has gone out of it.

I am extremely happy with the 416 buff and dont plan to shoot farther than 5 or 600 Yards.

"BUT" if I wanted to move a 450 gr or larger faster I would look at the Weatherby(Capacity
around 126 grains) or a 505 Gibbs necked down to 416.

Both of these cartridges should be built on the Mark 5 or a large custom action for strength.

My 416 is built on a Remington and works great at the pressures required. Accuracy has been
phenomenal with the 400 grain bullets with the best 3 shot group to date a .031 at 100 yards.
(my personal best to date).

I also looked at the 416 Barret but bullets, brass dies and reamers were proprietary and
extremely expensive.

To look at the rifle, do a search on -416 Buff- . there are several post and pictures on the earlier
thread.(I think they are on the second page)
J E CUSTOM
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Last edited by J E Custom; 01-24-2011 at 12:10 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:23 AM
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Re: Curiosity?

Cool, thanks for the info. So the Rigby has case strength issues? So would a guy benefit going to a Lapua necked out? If you were to use a good designed muzzle break, would it make shooting such a monster safely and comfortably?

Tank
__________________
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:27 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,012
Re: Curiosity?

What sparked this interest was a round I stumbled upon from curiosity as a youth. When I was about 16 or 17 I was able to stretch a 338Win Mag out to 41 Mag neck diameter and stuff a 230grn Hornady XTP bullet in it. Always thought it was neat. Now granted its a pistol bullet, but the curiosity to an applicable application has always aroused my interest.

Tank
__________________
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14] But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

If you find your self in a fair fight, your tactics suck!- Marine 1st Sergeant Jim Ryfinger

Friends don't let friends develop canonitis!-chucknbach

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-24-2011, 11:47 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,198
Re: Curiosity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liltank View Post
Cool, thanks for the info. So the Rigby has case strength issues? So would a guy benefit going to a Lapua necked out? If you were to use a good designed muzzle break, would it make shooting such a monster safely and comfortably?

Tank
I added to the post so there is more information now.

The Rigby is a fine cartridge and it was designed for Cordite Powder (Sticks) that was used
then, and the case capacity was needed and pressures were low for dependability at high
temperatures found in Africa. So the cases are designed for lower pressures and are
relatively thin. newer cases are better materials but to prevent higher pressures with
traditional loads they are the same volume (Still Thin compared to modern cartridges
designed for higher pressures.

In a tight chamber and with careful loading(Not over sizing) they can last a little longer
but if hunting dangerous game you always want to full length size so there is no problems
feeding and extracting the worst time.

And as to the Lapua brass,unless you improve it (blow it out and change the shoulder angle
it has less case capacity than the RUM. I looked at the Lapua and found no real advantage
except case life and the RUM uses a standard magnum bolt face.

The reason for no muzzle break is that most PHs will not allow a break to be used on dangerous
game hunts because they are there to save your ass and don't want to be slapped up side the
head with the blast and losing concentration momentarily. It is acceptable to have a break
and replace it with a barrel nut/Thread protector.

J E CUSTOM
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Last edited by J E Custom; 01-25-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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