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Christensen arms?

 
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  #15  
Old 04-28-2010, 09:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 12
Re: Christensen arms?

Listen to everyone else and build a better gun for less money. Just look under the "options" for each gun on their website. Action needs truing, trigger reworked and action bedded. You'll be spending over 2k. Not worth it.
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  #16  
Old 08-21-2010, 07:11 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nj
Posts: 180
Re: Christensen arms?

I like mine. 30-378 I had them install a shilen wrapped barrel accurize the action, tefon coat it, timney trigger, brake,. On a factory accumark. when I got it back I was shooting 1/2'' at 100, with FACTORY ammo 180 grain accubonds and BT. I moutned a S&B Mil 3x12x50 LP on it with the sling the scope, the stock bullet hold with 2 180 gr. accubonds in it I'm just under 10lbs

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  #17  
Old 08-21-2010, 07:17 PM
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Posts: 180
Re: Christensen arms?

Oh and another thing if you buy a used gun like I did have a new barrel and all the upgrades done that their carbon one custom $4-5,000 rifle has any anyway. Its a lot cheaper for the same gun. My gun ended up about 2,900.00 outside of the scope and mounts. You dont get the Garuntee, but I took the chance saved a few grand and ended up with a shooter
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2011, 11:37 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 23
Re: Christensen arms?

When "Christensen" first came out they used Shilen match barrels turned down to a thin insert then wrapped..I built one or rather sent them a new Sako AV to have them barrel it. After I received it back sent it to Lonewolf for the excellent stock work Bob does..Result?? Excellent work and state of the art with all the advantages of light weight in .300 WBY as it was a new concept back then.....BUT!!!
The cost was staggering...
AAAANDDDDDDD!!
Upon breaking in my barrel through the painful process of shoot and clean after every round for the first 30 and every 3 for the rest up to 60, all through out the process there was a "BLACK" substance in the barrel which was "HARD AS HELL" to get out during this session and the gun shot like crap till it was all out!! Bore scoped it during the process but after shootin and scrubbin it while hot over and over, this %$#@ started to dissipate....
Believe me I'm no novice to firearms or any aspects pertaining to them including reloading,building them or breakin them in, but I can only assume that this carbon graphite epoxy somehow was in the barrel from the process...
Now!!! after scrubbin the hell out of it with the JB and any other chemical that may assist in the break down of this crap including Acetone ,break cleaner and believe it or not "paint stripper" to get it out the barrel bore is a mirror as it should be and its impressive as far as performance and retaining very small groups with low fouling...
I never called Christensen about this problem because I know I would just hear the words "send it back for our evaluation" with a long turn around time..
In short if you like stiff barrels without the weight and money is no objective , do it..
It should be a great advantage for the varmit hunter that throws a lot of rounds down range without time to cool as they are a very stable barrel when hot like a target bull without the extra pounds...
I'm currently designing one now in a 22-243 or 22-284 with a fat carbon 1.350" and a carbon fiber ,2 point sound suppressor off of the Surgeon 591...
Maybe Christensen thought it was a drive shaft for a helicopter or an artificial limb or something or maybe someone had a bad day after a rough night there and forgot that bullets go through there, but the concept is an awesome one and with the right smith you can't go wrong...
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  #19  
Old 04-29-2011, 07:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW MT
Posts: 2,587
Re: Christensen arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRangeJunkie View Post
I have exchange several e-mails with Todd Bettin (Bettin Custom Guns) about building me a rifle. I was up front and asked him about the differences in the ABS Barrel vs. the Christensen arms carbon wrapped barrels. I realize he is trying to sell his product/service, but he gave me pretty much the same answers that your have read on this forum. Christensen's do not shoot consistently.

There is also a difference in the way they wrap and the materials used. There are some articles out there which tell you about these differences. I believe it was in "Popular Science" magazine that there was an article about the process as well.

There are several other custom rifle builders that use the ABS method (Jense, MPI). I am sure any of them will give you the same story. It is actually quite interesting to read for yourself. For instance, carbon fiber actually holds heat and shrinks when heated. I guess you can imagine what that does to accuracy. ABS system eliminates this inherent property of the carbon fiber. There are also different qualities of carbon fiber as well.

I have not talked to anyone at Christensen, but the builders that I have talked to about the ABS method are very open about their method and materials. used.

They are more expensive, but you pay for what you get. Bettin guarantees 0.5 or less with his rifles. He is very accessable and willing to answer your questions.
Realize that that barrel is 3x, what most of the other customs on this site. IT does not shoot 3x better, have to think if it really fits your build, mostly a weight saving deal.
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2011, 09:26 AM
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Re: Christensen arms?

Dirtboy,

Just curious, how did they "ACCURIZE" the Mark V receiver with its multiplain bolt lugs and receiver bolt lug supports????

I hear this all the time that these Wby receivers are accurized when in fact they are simply lapped in best they can get them. Sometimes this means ALOT of lapping and this is generally not the best method to do it.

You say you spent $2900 which was much less then a full custom rifle, really.... How much does a Wby Mk V cost? Even a used one will give you +$1000 bite in the wallet so now your looking at a minimum of nearly $4000 you have in a USED rifle for that matter. Resell value is gone which is not a concern if you keep the rifle forever but if for some chance it does not shoot well, like you said, you take your chances, $4000 is a hell of a chance.

Especially considering that you could do the following:

Borden timberline Magnum receiver
Seekins 20 moa rail
Holland Comp recoil lug
Jewell trigger
Wyatts extended internal mag box
BDL floorplate, follower, spring and receiver screws
Lilja #4 contour Stainless steel, fluted barrel, 24 to 26" finish length
Barrel fitting and chambering
Muzzle brake
McMillan carbon fiber BDL stock
Pillar bedding
Bead Blast matte finish
Chambered in 300 RUM
Tested and proven capable of 1/2moa accuracy or better
Shipped to your FFL

Total, just over $3800, Less then you had in your 30-378 wby and in a rifle that would likely match its performance pretty easily in standard length barrels and on average, far outshoot the Wby based rifles. Plus this, your not paying $4000 for a used rifle with no resell value. The full custom rifles have several times more resell value then a modified factory rifle.

-To cut the cost even more, you can use a #3 contour barrel, drop the $130 fluting charge and your down to around $3670 for a complete rifle including 20 moa tactical rail base.

-IF you wanted to go even further, replace the Seekins 20 moa rail with a set of two piece bases for the Savage Accu-trigger receivers. These can be made very light and had for $30. This brings you down to a $3580 total rifle cost.

-If you can live with an extra 1/4 lb of rifle weight, you can get the standard McMillan stock without the carbon fiber shell and save another $100, thats down to $3480.

-You can also go with a less costly but still quality Timney trigger and drop rifle price down again to $3380, still for a complete custom rifle that will hold its resell value.

Now your talking about a full custom rifle, no used parts, no highly modified barrels, proven accuracy before shipping, much better resell value, and for only $500 more then you paid for your Mk V........

Weight wise, it may be slightly heavier then your rifle but only by a few ounces I would bet and you would never have to worry about the potential problems with the CA barrel sleeve from heating up like we have seen so often in the past.

I see no real advantage to the Carbon barrels from a practical stand point and this is from someone that has fitted many dozens of them to customers rifles and been able to test them side by side with all steel barrels.

IN actual testing, by hanging weights off the end of a barrel that is chucked up in the lathe by its threads and measuring the barrel flexing, even a relatively small contour all steel barrel had noticably less flex then a large contour carbon wrapped barrel so the barrel stiffness claim is not true. Pound for pound carbon fiber may be stiffer then steel but we can not use a 4" cylinder on a rifle so its smoke and mirrors to be honest.

Another disadvantage, a carbon sleeved barrel from CA can not be set back and rechambered whereas most all steel barrels offer the ability to set the barrel back at least once and refit, rechamber and reinstall offering extended barrel life for minimal cost compared to a complete new barrel fitting. IT will not offer the life of a new barrel but it will offer a life extension which is not even an option with the CA barrel.

Paying this type of money for a shilen based rifle just does not make much sense to me. As a precision rifle builder, the process does not make alot of sense to me, you take a button rifled barrel, turn it down, glue on a carbon sleeve and then screw on a threaded cap to hold things together. Several red flags fly when I look at this process.

The main red flag, When you turn down a button pulled barrel in diameter, the bore diameter will increase in size..... This is not a good thing and it can not really be avoided, especially when you turn the barrel down to the degree that CA turns their barrels down to. I do not know a barrel company that would back their button pulled barrels after such a conversion is done. Generally when a bore diameter increases in size, accuracy suffers.

This is not as much of a concern with cut rifled barrels which makes me wonder why they are not used. To be honest, I believe its simply because of cost. I have not seen where CA will even use the Shilen Select match barrel, just the standard Shilen barrel.

Simply put, do not think that their rifles are a steal for price, they are not, you can get much more for no more or even less money and have a much better investment for your money.

If you want a CA rifle, by all means get one. They generally shoot well enough for any big game hunting. I would not call them a precision long range weapon by any means, at least the 6 I have personally shot did not produce the performance needed for a true precision long range, big game rifle but if your wanting a rifle that you can pack all day and then shoot over shooting sticks or off a bush you lean over which seems to be the CA way of shooting watching their videos, I think you would likely be happy with their rifles.

If your looking for a true long range precision rifle that will hold its value, there are MUCH better places to put your money.

I am not saying these are bad rifles, they are just not precision long range rifles, they are lightweight packing rifles pure and simple. This may sound like a pretty harsh opinion of CA rifles. IN some ways that is correct but more accurately, I am much more passionate about the customer getting a good return for their investment and in my professional opinion, there are MUCH better ways to go for the person that wants a quality precision rifle.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #21  
Old 05-01-2011, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
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Re: Christensen arms?

Just checked the CA web sight, to get a rifle based on the Rem 700 with the options listed above, not counting rail base, you would have $5000 into the rifle alone!!!!!

Not sure what the price cut is if you supply the receiver but that is a hell of a price for a rifle based on a Rem 700.

One thing I find interesting is the charge of $995 for a "MATCH BARREL SLEEVE"

There are no match barrels out there that cost $995 so I do not see why there is this extreme cost for a match barrel. Hell, buy a Lilja or Hart or any other top end barrel and you can save at leat 1/2 the cost and possibly much more.

Better yet, get ahold of many of the smiths here on LRH and they will get you alot more for your money. I could not sleep at night charging that much for a factory based rifle, hell, most of my full custom rifles do not cost this much but I guess to each their own for setting prices.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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