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Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

 
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2010, 09:21 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

I'll take another stab at this. If you are shooting small caliber pointed bullets, then you will need expansion to kill well. But by and large I don't think expansion is as deadly as some might think. If you can kill one of the toughest animals on earth, the cape buffalo, with a 375 flat nose, non expanding solid, then maybe expansion isn't all that critical.

Maybe expansion is mainly needed to compensate for inadequate bullet diameter and/or penetration. I've always been impressed with how well a properly delivered broadhead can kill. No expansion there.

But just to make myself clear, with 338 or smaller pointed bullets, maybe all pointed bullets, they better expand.
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2010, 09:45 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

Another way to kill an animal is to put a sufficient enough hole through there chest as to not allow the lungs to function. The chest has to be reasonably sealed to keep the lungs from collapsing, this doesn't involve blood loss and could be done with a bullet that does not expand but it would have to be of sufficient size to make a permanent hole and have enough momentum to make two holes.

Looking back in time at what the buffalo hunters used may help use some, as the buffalo hunter extended there ranges they shot larger diameter heavier bullets. These bullets will mushroom sometimes but not very often so your left with making large holes and momentum.
A side note the buffalo hunter wanted one shot kills, missing or wounding was not an option, I forget the exact dollar amount but it boils down to, after paying the skinners and paying for the ammo shot per buff one miss puts them at the break even point on that buff, if it took three shots to get one hide they owed money!
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2010, 09:53 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varminator 911 View Post
If I was carrying a handgun for bear protection it would have heavy, hard-cast, flat-nose bullets. So Fifty Driver made my point. Dangerous game solids are the same. Flat nose penetrates better than round or mushroomed bullets so maybe it is chosen for deep, straight penetration.

Also didn't the buffalo hunters of years past shoot non expanding bullets at some pretty long ranges. My impression is they were the original LR hunters
Varminator, that's all very true, but this discussion is geared toward the pointy high BC bullets that most of us use in LRH.

Thanks,

Mark
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  #18  
Old 01-11-2010, 10:26 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

This is the question you asked

Quote:
Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game
Everytime some one gives an answer you don't like, you disqualify their answer.

Quote:
but this discussion is geared toward the pointy high BC bullets that most of us use in LRH.
The truth is the truth and most of us know what it is.

I will just delete all of my posts and you can go along and only keep the ones that agree with you.
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  #19  
Old 01-11-2010, 10:31 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
This is the question you asked

Everytime some one gives an answer you don't like, you disqualify their answer.

The truth is the truth and most of us know what it is.

I will just delete all of my posts and you can go along and only keep the ones that agree with you.
Well that's the most refreshing post thus far. If nothing else, you're consistent.
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  #20  
Old 01-11-2010, 10:55 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
This is the question you asked

Everytime some one gives an answer you don't like, you disqualify their answer.
BB, It has nothing to do with whether or not I like it. What I would like to do is gear this discussion to LRH and in LRH we use high BC bullets. If you go back to the first page you'll see that Kirby made this post...

Quote:
This DRAMATICALLY depends on the type of bullet being used. For a modern, pointed ogive bullet used in rifles, I say certainly for being most effective at "quickly" and "Cleanly" killing big game.

If your talking about a big bore chambering using bullets with wide flat nose designs, its not nearly as critical and in fact, expansion on this type of bullet can actually decrease effectiveness at quickly killing game.

Since we are chatting on LRH, I assume you are referring to the former with sharp ogive rifle bullet designs.

Caliber also has some role to play in this as well.
I followed with this post before Varminator made his post...

Quote:
Good point Kirby (no pun intended ), I'm talking about pointy bullets.
Fair enough?


Quote:
The truth is the truth and most of us know what it is.
I agree completely and I acknowledged what Varminator said as true but it doesn't apply to..."modern, pointed ogive bullet used in rifles"


Quote:
I will just delete all of my posts and you can go along and only keep the ones that agree with you.
I hope not but that's your call.
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  #21  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:21 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

It's the permanent displacement of the soft tissues that the bullet kills with. The square front of the solid dangerous game bullet displaces soft tissue at perpendicular angles to the direction of travel, thus creating a larger permanent wound channel. Bullets that mushroom become larger in diameter to create a larger wound channel. The more round or pointed the front of the bullet the less perpendicular to the direction of bullet travel the soft tissue displacement is. Fragmentation will cause damage also, but will cause loss of momentum and penetration. So there is a give and a take for explosive expansion. FMJ bullets do make things dead. Once it is dead, I guess it was effective. Marginal hits with fmj's will likely cause death, but you may need to have your tracking hat.

JMHO,

Steve
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