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Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

 
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2010, 04:53 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

my dog was once shot by a local farmer while she was running over his land. shot with a 22lr in just behind the rib cage. bullet traveled through both lungs and is now under skin just behind of side shoulder. she lived and is fine now. but i imagine that the lack of expansion is what saved her. it something like a .17hmr was used im sure she would be dead. though that is a different caliber i think the highly frangible bullet would have caused a huge wound channel
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2010, 04:57 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effective Killing of Game

For large game animals, using the pointed bullets, at long range with reduced impact velocities, short of brain and central nervous system (spinal cord) hits, I'm in the Yes camp. For body hits, my experiences say an expanding bullet provides much more assurance of a humane kill.

I have seen high velocity .222 Rem hits on red fox with FMJs drop these 13 lb animals outright. These red fox are my primary experience with FMJ body hits. On the other hand I hit a 30 lb racoon with the 222 FMJ at high velocity at about 200 yds and wouldn't have recovered the animal, other than he was spined. I believe an expanding bullet would most likely have killed him in a manner that wouldn't have required a follow-up shot.

My two first-hand experiences on large game with decent lethal body hits - but failed bullet expansion - with impact velocities of ~2950 fps and ~2500 fps were not good. Both broadside body hits. One solidly double-lunged. The second toward the back of both lungs - less than perfect but still good enough than an expanded bullet at 2500 fps would have downed and dispatched this small black bear pretty quickly.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:04 PM
ATH ATH is offline
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

The only exception to an unqualified "yes" would be large calibers beyond what are typically discussed in this forum. Having more muzzleloader experience than average, I can say that a 50cal conical that does not expand kills just fine, but that leaves a much bigger hole than a .22-.338 cal bullet poking through at high speed.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:18 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

I'm thinking that bullets that don't open at close range/high velocity tend to just poke through with very little tearing and no tumbling. At longrange or lower velocities we get more dwell time in the animal and there is more tearing and tumbling of the projectile. Caliber almost has to play a big role at these extreme ranges.
If we shot bullets soule on manufacture recomendations everyone would have to put away there 338 with 300gr SMK's which clearly work. Once you get out to the mile mark there are very few chamberings that can keep a bullet fast enough to function but there is game taken cleanly at those ranges with chambering and bullets that well below 1800fps even below 1200fps. I really hope this thread can shed some light on what takes place at extreme ranges, there are very few that can talk on this with experience.
Lets face it this is LRH, we are way out side the comfort zone of most hunters.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:07 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

Since we're discussing a single, 'pointy' projectile and it's capability to deliver death-inducing energy, a point to consider is what does it really take to induce death. Please excuse my over-simplifications, it helps me *think* things through...

I'm not a veterinarian or doctor, but i *suspect* death (in this context) is generally caused by a lack of blood/oxygen to the brain or catastrophic shock to the central nervous system.

Whatever the projectile needs to do - whether;

a) destroy vital organ(s)
b) achieve massive tissue devastation (creating significant blood loss)
c) catastrophically disrupt central nervous system functions

it must have the appropriate placement, the energy to affect a)-c), and have adequate dimensions/size/shape/density (dssd) to deposit that energy.

If bullet has appropriate placement/dssd, but not enough energy - FAIL
If bullet has enough energy/good dssd, but poor placement - FAIL
If bullet has enough energy/good placement, but poor dssd - FAIL

Unless the projectile is so massive (i dunno - lets say .50cal/12.7mm and greater?) it can accomplish any of a) - c), i believe it must expand.

To what exact dimensions/size/shape/density i've no idea, but "big/heavy/hard enough" is what my uneducated mind wants to say!!!
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:57 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

If I was carrying a handgun for bear protection it would have heavy, hard-cast, flat-nose bullets. So Fifty Driver made my point. Dangerous game solids are the same. Flat nose penetrates better than round or mushroomed bullets so maybe it is chosen for deep, straight penetration.

Also didn't the buffalo hunters of years past shoot non expanding bullets at some pretty long ranges. My impression is they were the original LR hunters
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2010, 08:59 PM
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Re: Is Bullet Expansion Necessary for Effecive Killing of Game

BB, I wonder how many more it may have taken if 7mm FMJ's were used?
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