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Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

 
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:32 PM
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Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
Accuracy loads out of my 300 winchesters at sea level 100 yard zero.


180 Cutting Edge C21 at 1000 yards. drop 218", windage 57", 1791 fps, 1282 ft pounds.

210 Berger same parameters. Drop 273", windage 62", 1619 fps, 1222 ft. pounds.

What disservice?
I see about .610 BC at 3200 fps at sea level with the CE to reach these numbers. For most guys this is not even close to real world with an average 180 as was originally compared.

The biggest disservice is that the Cutting Edge Bullets are not readily available, and they are not even close to a practical price for people who shoot alot. $60+ for 50 bullets is ridiculous and enough to make one feel guilty just to shoot a 5 shot practice session. I'll take $25 per 50 bullet Bergers for equal performance any day. Shooting a 300 Win mag should never exceed the cost of a 338 Lapua.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
This is a hunting forum and not a target forum so one thing hunters with limited experience need to look at is not using a bullet that exceeds the capability of your cartridge where range is concerned. Shooting targets at extreme long range well beyond 1000 yards a shooter would benefit by shooting a much heavier and greater BC bullet since killing performance is not a concern. A heavy for caliber bullet such as the Hornady Amax, Sierra matchking or Berger VLD for instance. But with hunting you must look at other parameters such as what is the top range my cartridge would be acceptable on big game performance. Then look at the best bullet for big game performance within that range. Also a bullet that performs well on game at 50 yards at high velocity and then at 1000 yards at slow velocity. 1000 yards is about where a guy should limit the 300 winchester and maybe closer on elk size game. At that point he should look at a cartridge with more performance.

Killing animals at long range is far more than just picking a bullet that looks good on a ballistics program.
I agree mostly. I will however state that this is a long range hunting forum and all suggestions will be made to provide premium performance at ranges exceeding the average hunting range. I never suggested any bullet type that does not have a list of dead animals behind it. The truth of the matter is, that high BC hunting bullets are the best to use for long range hunting and the fact remains that most high BC bullets are heavy for caliber bullets. The caveat here is that you have enough rifle to drive them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
I just wanted to come in here and add another important factor. I use my 300 winchester as a light backpack style rifle good to somewhere between 800-1000 yards. With the 180 grain bullet it is a pleasure to shoot and I can easily hold steady on long range targets with it. With heavy bullets it will knock the living crap out of me. I do not want a muzzle brake on this type of rifle. If I use a muzzle brake or heavier rifle it is in a cartridge with far greater capability for long range hunting than a 300 winchester. The set up I use with the 300 winchester is excellent for a light rifle to 800-1000 yards. Scoped out it weighs 7 1/4 pounds. If I went with the heavier bullet that knocked the crap out of me then I am defeating the purpose to begin with and am going larger cartridge. If I shoot a heavy rifle I may as well shoot it in something with 1500+ yard capability. No difference in weight or hiking with it. My equipment is highly refined for a particular purpose when I pick that particular rifle up to go hunting.
No disagreement here, and I do respect your opinion. Everyone on here comes with different needs. I'm glad you've found something that works for you. I just choose to take the hit on the shoulder instead of in the wallet.

Last edited by brentc; 01-21-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

Brent, I just went back on JBM to check the numbers and they are accurate for the accuracy loads in my rifles. I would appreciate if you would not attack me personally or call me a liar. I have had a storied carreer of the highest degree of charachter and integrity and have held the highest clearances allowed a civilian in this country. I come on here to report my actual experience which is probably far greater than yours with all I have been involved in for many years.

I am not on the payroll of any company and could care less what the actual results are. I just report my experience testing various products. I guess the difference here is that I have shot all the bullets listed here extensively both at targets and at game and you have not. That would make me qualified to report on it and you would not be. I did use JBM in this case with my actual velocities and trusted that to give a quick overview for comparison.

If you have tested all these products and can report accurately on here please feel free to post your results. Keyboard commandos trying to read ballistics tables with no experience testing the products is not good to call others liars who have tested the products.

Please just report your experience and I will report mine. It is up to the guy who asked the question what he wants to pay or whether he can call cutting edge, which he can, and order a box of bullets. It is about him and not you or me.
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  #31  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:11 PM
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Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

the bergers are quite abit cheaper than the cutting edge and for no more real advantage. as far as high bc 180s hornady makes a 180 grain bullet for remington with the same bc as the cutting edge for 25$ abox less
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  #32  
Old 01-21-2012, 07:56 PM
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Posts: 896
Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
Brent, I just went back on JBM to check the numbers and they are accurate for the accuracy loads in my rifles. I would appreciate if you would not attack me personally or call me a liar. I have had a storied carreer of the highest degree of charachter and integrity and have held the highest clearances allowed a civilian in this country. I come on here to report my actual experience which is probably far greater than yours with all I have been involved in for many years.

I am not on the payroll of any company and could care less what the actual results are. I just report my experience testing various products. I guess the difference here is that I have shot all the bullets listed here extensively both at targets and at game and you have not. That would make me qualified to report on it and you would not be. I did use JBM in this case with my actual velocities and trusted that to give a quick overview for comparison.

If you have tested all these products and can report accurately on here please feel free to post your results. Keyboard commandos trying to read ballistics tables with no experience testing the products is not good to call others liars who have tested the products.

Please just report your experience and I will report mine. It is up to the guy who asked the question what he wants to pay or whether he can call cutting edge, which he can, and order a box of bullets. It is about him and not you or me.
No attack intended. Sorry you felt accused. I went back and toned it down a bit. I respect your points of view, but you're posting numbers from a bullet that has "real world" BC of .560 as quoted by Cutting Edge. I'm just finding it hard to believe that this particular manufacturer was as far off in real world testing as you're claiming. I'm not at all saying it's not happening. I'm just not sure it's realistically attainable for someone to duplicate your numbers in their own 300 Win. Mag, then again, it may very well be.

This is a description directly from the Cutting Edge website about your bullet.

Quote:
This particular bullet has very similar BC as the MTH C21 bullet and can be shot at a slower speed. Real World BC of .560 was calculated using muzzle velocity of 3250fps and actual drops from 500 to 1000 yards. Muzzle velocity was established using a 300 Remington Ultra Mag. with a 1-10" barrel twist rate 26" long.
Here is another one. They almost make it sound like their "real world" data might just be a little bit accurate. Emphasis on the "little".

Quote:
At this point the Ballistic Coefficients of our bullets are not exact but are not exaggerated. We arrived at the stated BC's by using muzzle velocity and actual bullet drops at various ranges and calculated them using Oehler's Ballistic Explorer 6.2.0 software. We do realize this is not precise but anyone that has shot long distances will see the difference in drop when compared to the bullets you are currently shooting. As we move forward we plan to get more precise BC's by using an Oehler 43 or Oehler 83 chronograph with acoustic targets set at yardages out to 800 yards. The yardages will be certified and the ballistic coefficients will be very accurate. Eventually, to get even more accurate, we will have data obtained by using Doppler Radar and post it as well. We will be posting these results on our web site, Facebook page and Twitter account. As with most bullets and especially with VLD designs, the use of multiple BC's may be required for our bullets especially at very long ranges for better accuracy. However, if we do not list variable BC's in our bullet descriptions, the posted BC will get you within 1/2 MOA even at very long ranges. New bullet calibers, designs and weights will be continually added using the same methods of communication and individuals are encouraged to check back frequently for updates. We also encourage you to e-mail us with any questions you may have. Please be patient as it does take time to get through all the questions coming through.

Last edited by brentc; 01-21-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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  #33  
Old 01-21-2012, 08:37 PM
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Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcvibby View Post
If your guns really likes them and you can get good accuracy I would definitely go with the 200 Grain Accubond. Hands down. Just a great all around bullet. Still has a .588 BC too. That is really good for a premium hunting bullet in my opinion.
I agree, 200 AB. Can't go wrong.
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  #34  
Old 01-22-2012, 12:57 AM
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Location: Wyoming
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Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

Brent, I haven't looked at the ce website so have no idea what they are quoting but i think the .56 is the c32 bullet. Over the summer I tested the 180 grain c21 bullet with actual drops to 1000 yards and got right around .6 bc. The CE and the GS bullets from south africa that I tested shoot on average in my rifles 50-75 fps faster than an equal weight standard lead core bullet. I have ideas why that is but have not done definitive tests to find out. That is another area where these two brands of bullets get a little boost.

I used the drop down on jbm for the 210 berger. The best accuracy with my 300 winchesters is right at 2900 fps with that bullet so that is what I used. You are welcome to run it on jbm with your accuracy load to compare. Most of my 300 winchesters get 3150-3200 fps with standard 180 grain bullets and top velocity for accuracy. The CE bullets hit around 3250 fps which is what I used. So if you use my actual tested bc of .6 at one of my actual accuracy velocities of 3250 fps on jbm you will see what I am shooting.

I get on here for pleasure and to learn. I do not get on here to argue. Just post what you get and I will post mine. I regularly shoot every brand in the industry and own no stock in any so however it falls is how it is with me. Good or bad. I have been on here for ten years and bragged on every company. I hope they all do well and continue providing top innovative products for us to enjoy. Cutting Edge is a new company providing specialty custom bullets for precise long range hunting. They are expensive for those willing to pay for top performance and may not be for everyone but let others decide that and make there own decision. We need guys like them and any other new companies with good ideas.
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  #35  
Old 01-22-2012, 01:09 AM
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Re: Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
It shot 1 1/2 moa even after 100 rounds of wasted time and compoenents. The Broughton shot 1/2 moa with ease and a load was found quickyl. I have Keigers that shoot very good, but I believe I simply got a bad barrel.

Jeff
Broz did you call Krieger and ask them for help?

I can't imagine they'd not make it right with you.
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