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Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

 
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:11 AM
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Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

So I am watching TBOTW last night and is it just me or is that show more about sales pitches for huskemaw scopes and berger bullets? Namely the 7mm. I meen come on, do they really think that custom dials and 2 MOA wind holds make standard MOA or MIL dials and reticles obsolete? They flat out said that standard reticles and dials just dont work. Sure those custom dials work when the temperature is right. What if the dial is calibrated for 60 degrees and a 20 degree cold front moves in and the shot is long? Then what? How about when there is a 38 degree angle at 700 yards. Then what? The windage numbers on the elevation dials are nice for when the wind is 10 MPH and a 90 degree angle. How about when it is 4 MPH and from 1:30? How about 7:30? What about spin drift?

There will still be math involved for alot of shooting scenarios.

Now I wont lie, there are some cases where TBOTW system works very well. Out to 600 yards, fairly level ground, modest wind, etc.....But when shots get longer, steeper, spin drift greater, temperature more extreme, wind inconsistencies, then calculators and standard adjustments or hold overs cant be beat for a PRECISION shot (IMHO). "Standard dials and reticles just dont work". Wow! Seems like a sales pitch to me.

Then, they compare the 300 RUM versus the 7mm RM. Now I dont have a problem with the comparison (I dont care for the 300 RUM much either) but I do expect them to give accurate information. The info given for the 300 RUM was accurate, however they didnt use information for the 300 RUM's true potential. 165 grain bullet at 3300 FPS? are you kidding me? We all know that the 300 RUM will drive those little bullets a heck of a lot fater than that. So then they give the 7mm info using its max potential AND using a VLD bullet instead of a hunting bullet like they did for the 300 RUM. Does that seem fair. Now for the real insult to this community......A flat out fairy tale. They claimed that the 168 Berger fired 1t 3000 FPS would deliver 1200 foot pounds of energy at 1000 yards AND drift 47" in a 10 MPH wind. WTF????? Unless there is some magical BC there that I dont know about, they are about 150 pounds off AND 13" of drift off. Now I am not saying 1050 pounds of energy and 60" of drift is bad, but come on, get your information right. Why make something sound better than it really is?? Sounds like a sales pitch to me. All they had to do was compare apples to apples and use info for the 300 RUM using true velocity potential and another berger bullet such as the 168 VLD. The 7mm would still win the fight, BUT not by as much as they say and if they used a bullet weight in porportion such as the 190 VLD, it of course would hit harder, and drift less while making a bigger hole. Dont compare a berger VLD for one caliber and max velocity potential versus a bullet of similar weight and a totally different design AND at less than max velocity potential. He!! if we wanted to do that I could make the 308 look better on paper than the 30-378 using top BC bullets at max velocity potential in the 308 versus bullets of small BC at less than max velocity potential in the 30-378. Ahhhh, but then it wouldnt be apples to apples now would it?

Sorry for the rant, I just HAD to get that off my chest.
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.

Last edited by Michael Eichele; 10-19-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:46 AM
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Re: Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

Quote:
Sorry for the rant, I just HAD to get that off my chest.
I bet your blood pressure is now way down in the SAFE range again.

Any BDC turret is not perfect but it sure works well for me. This image shows the original 243AI conditions for the turret I used two days ago in the WY Big Horns, and 2 other sets of conditions for my actual 6.5/284 rifle's load for a Casper hunt and and in the Big Horns.



I took a doe at 722 yards. I was using a turret developed for my 243AI load on my new 6.5/284 rifle. The turret was for a lower altitude, lower BC, different velocity. When I laid drop charts next to each other for both sets of conditions, I needed no modifications until I was out to 700 yards.

If I remember correctly (big if ), I took off one click for the angle, and one click for the chart differences. For greater conditional differences I'd just carry a little cheat sheet chart. Not much different than carrying several sets of charts for use with a MOA turret. But, hey, use whatever you want.
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Last edited by Len Backus; 10-19-2010 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:06 PM
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Re: Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len Backus View Post
I bet your blood pressure is now way down in the SAFE range again.
You know me so well!!!
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:12 PM
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Re: Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

I totaly agree, at least half the show is them and the guys they take on free hunts exclaiming how the only way to shoot at xxx range is with the huskemaw scope combination... Are you kidding me?
I believe they are knowledgable guys, must suck to make yourself look stupid for tv all the time.

I wish there were another show that didn't seem like an advertisement for their $4000 rem 700 rebuild and scope..

I honestly believe they are responsible for a lot of inexperienced guys going out and injuring game, they regularily put some guy with basicly zero experience on that gun or shooting LR in general and show how they're killing stuff way out there and the. Saying how they couldn't do it without the huskemaw. They are implying "buy our scope and you can do this too!"
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:26 PM
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Re: Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

Michael,
I agree with everything you stated. The custom turrets have their place when sighted under conditions similar to the location where one will be hunting. My problem is I sight in in the flat lands and hunt in the mountains with common angled elevation and declination shots, up to 30 degrees or more, at much different atmospheric pressures.

Please don't go the way of goodgrouper! He started a low level rant with very credible information that got pretty extreme. He had very valid points, almost all of which I agreed with. But I wish he hadn't boiled over because I miss his posts on this Forum. A lot of us LRHs are very passionate and opinionated. Stubborn in fact - to the point where we need to shake our heads every once in a while and practice "live an let live". I need to take my own advice more often than not.

Some of the most stubborn have some of the best experiences to share and learn from.

But for the record, I'm with you on this one.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:31 PM
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Re: Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

Yep buy what I'm selling and you can do what i do no practice needed. Just buy it and do it that eze.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:36 PM
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Re: Best of the West. Your longrange authority. Seriously?? (Rant)

I just reviewed much of that same information in a recent P.M. .
I absolutely love BOTW, but Im not a 7mm fan nor do I shoot Berger bullets or own a Gunwerks rifle, or a Huskemaw scope. But I can respect the intimate knowledge required of ones own setup, (especially when you have to talk a trigger dummy into understanding exactly what your trying to get them to do). Who knows, maybe they have a different turret for every show at different altitude, and aptmospheric conditions. Then again maybe not, maybe they just realy know thier own equipment, and are very very good at reading wind, and shooting conditions, and calculating the proper hold with the fixed reticle, or maybe a combo of both, and talking the trigger puller thru it.

I too dont care for the comparison of ideal bullet for the 7mm vs not ideal for the big 30, but what we have to understand is that to appeal to a wider audience, for the "anyone can do it factor" to boost sales, they choose the 7mm over the much better for long range 338. Why? I would guess that the 338 cal scares some people.
The B/C for the 7mm Berger is a bit higher due to the nose being perportionally skinnier than the 30 cal, eventhough the S/D is almost identicle in ideal bullet for both cal. comparison ( as Im sure you already know) So to make thier product look like the best, they go with the 7mm.
I much prefer, and agree with your earlier comparison as the bigger cartrige and bullet. But for numbers on paper the 7mm makes thier product look cooler...........
Plus Berger already had a very good L/R bullet for the 7mm on the market, where as the big 338, 300gr is pretty new.......hows that goin anyhow? Havent hered in a while.
The show is as much an infomercial for thier products as it is a hunting show, wich is incredibly anoying, but Im hopelessly addicted to it. At least it promotes Long Range, not just watching a feeder from 100 yards in a box or tree (Tecomante high fence stuff), we see alot of that on tv already. I Just hit the mute button when theyre not showing the hunt, or shooting part.
I also just got talked out of the CDS turrets, thru much research, for my VX-III and went with the M-1 turrets for the Long range stuff, and a B/C reticle for the close stuff, when I sent it in to the custom shop for the same reasons you mentioned about the pre set dials, and windage in the reticle.
Ive shot with the Huskemaw before, It worked as advertised, but its realy not my style. Good scope for some folks, and thier application, & not so good for others for thier application.
Eventhough our opinions differ on what the "best" system is, or way of doing things is different, I will continue to wach thier show, cause I like the show, and like the promotion of Long range hunting. But I will also continue to use the mute button for the infomercial part. Its just not my style, and it drives me nutts.
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Last edited by winmag; 10-19-2010 at 12:52 PM.
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