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Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

 
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2009, 12:53 AM
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

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Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
Tyler,

I have both of the ones that were mentioned the most. I have a Hall Express in .338 Lapua Improved and another one in .338/378 with the same length barrels.

In short, when shooting to the full potential of the gun, shooter and components, only 12 fps seperates the 338/378 from the 338 Lapua Improved.

Lapua brass lasts much longer and is more consistent for a longer period of time as far as neck tension is concerned. I have never ruined a Lapua case primer pocket..... But I have had some of the Weatherby cases get weak in primer retention.

If you were not interested in the improved version of the Lapua case then I would go with the Weaherby. But, if you were willing to do the improved version, the Lapua would get the nod from me. Again, I have both and even a 30/378 Weatherby.

We use the big Weatherby rounds to test the high BC HAT bullets. We use the Lapua Improved cases to hunt with.

Are you more concerned with the second and third shots or more focused on the first one?

Almost forgot, 100 Weatherby branded cases will run you almost $289.99 and the same number of 338 Lapua cases will run you $214 both from the same source. Basically, you can get (500) 338 Lapua cases for the same price that (375) .378 Weatherby cases will cost. Finally, the Lapua case is more efficient as it gets the same performance with less powder.

Also, I follow my own advice and I have right at (2000) 338 Lapua cases and maybe (120) 378 style cases counting up all three variations. When the 378 brass runs out, the barrels get rechambered into 338 Lapua variants.

LV
Due you think that either 338's have an inherent accuracy advantage ? What are the barrel lengths and velocities are you achieving ?

Any opinion of the 338's versus the 30-378 as far as accuracy goes at long range ?

Thanks,

John
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  #23  
Old 01-20-2009, 07:23 AM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

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Originally Posted by Marine sniper View Post
Due you think that either 338's have an inherent accuracy advantage ? What are the barrel lengths and velocities are you achieving ?

Any opinion of the 338's versus the 30-378 as far as accuracy goes at long range ?

Thanks,

John
Accuracy advantage of the .338s over a .30... I don't think any exists.

338 Lapua Improved is 30" @ 2988 fps and the 338/378 is 31" 3000 fps both using the 300 SMK.

However, with the HAT bullets all that is now moot since the 300 SMK is yesterday's news and they really pale in performance as compared to the HATS.

LV
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  #24  
Old 01-20-2009, 09:03 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
Accuracy advantage of the .338s over a .30... I don't think any exists.

338 Lapua Improved is 30" @ 2988 fps and the 338/378 is 31" 3000 fps both using the 300 SMK.

However, with the HAT bullets all that is now moot since the 300 SMK is yesterday's news and they really pale in performance as compared to the HATS.

LV
Actually I never really stated that the 338s are more accurate than a 30-378 but I did say that the record kill of a prairie dog was at 1.78 miles with a 338 lapua. The 30-378 has held many records some set by a distant relative of mine (Earl Chronister) but for truly long distance I would go with the BCs, velocity and accuracy of a 338 over a 30-378. I have a custom 30-378 which will kill anything that I wish to shoot at but still for the long distance kill, I would like a 338. Again by long distance I am referring to 2000 yards or thereabout not to say that I would ever try to shoot at that distance becuase as you know, such distances require very expensive scope modifications and lots of practice which for me is hard to find,

bob chronister
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2009, 09:21 AM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

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Originally Posted by drbobc View Post
Actually I never really stated that the 338s are more accurate than a 30-378 but I did say that the record kill of a prairie dog was at 1.78 miles with a 338 lapua. The 30-378 has held many records some set by a distant relative of mine (Earl Chronister) but for truly long distance I would go with the BCs, velocity and accuracy of a 338 over a 30-378. I have a custom 30-378 which will kill anything that I wish to shoot at but still for the long distance kill, I would like a 338. Again by long distance I am referring to 2000 yards or thereabout not to say that I would ever try to shoot at that distance becuase as you know, such distances require very expensive scope modifications and lots of practice which for me is hard to find,

bob chronister
Bob,

I had not read your posting. I was merely replying to the question asked of me by Marine Sniper. I would never argue with you Chronister's as you helped write the book on this long range game......

The heavier high BC bullets we are tinkering with in both the .338 caliber and the .30 caliber are all over .900 BC so the answer I gave was based on theory of the exact same BC with either a .30 caliber or a .338 caliber. If both bullets are the same BC, I see no advantage of one over the other.

LV
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2009, 09:38 AM
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

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Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
However, with the HAT bullets all that is now moot since the 300 SMK is yesterday's news and they really pale in performance as compared to the HATS. LV
LV, in all due respect and not doubting your data on the Hats. Don't you think that more field reports and experience needs to be gathered before you kick the 300 SMK's to the curb? The numbers of good confirmed kills at long distance with the SMK's way way out number the hats. Not saying the Hat is not the best thing since sliced bread, just that in my opinion there are only a few actual hunting reports with them. Heck, I alone took 4 antelope @ 482, 710, 713, and 820. Also took a nice 6x6 elk @ 526 and a Muley @ 400+ , and a WT doe @ 1137, plus last week a Coyote @ 689. All this past hunting season, all one shot cold bore kills, and all with the 300 SMK. Now if the hats are more accurate, better BC and will do their job, I for one would like to hear more real world hunting reports by hunters. But can you understand why maybe some, like me, are not ready to down play the 300 SMK's yet? With the limited data available? In my opinion you may attract a few armchair Quarter backs with statements like that but I don't believe you will attract the real LR hunters that have seen first hand the work of the SMK's and feel they have done their job.

Jeff

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  #27  
Old 01-20-2009, 10:16 AM
Lightvarmint
 
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

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Originally Posted by Broz View Post
LV, in all due respect and not doubting your data on the Hats. Don't you think that more field reports and experience needs to be gathered before you kick the 300 SMK's to the curb? The numbers of good confirmed kills at long distance with the SMK's way way out number the hats. Not saying the Hat is not the best thing since sliced bread, just that in my opinion there are only a few actual hunting reports with them. Heck, I alone took 4 antelope @ 482, 710, 713, and 820. Also took a nice 6x6 elk @ 526 and a Muley @ 400+ plus last week a Coyote @ 689. All this past hunting season, all one shot cold bore kills, and all with the 300 SMK. Now if the hats are more accurate, better BC and will do their job, I for one would like to hear more real world hunting reports by hunters. But can you understand why maybe some, like me, are not ready to down play the 300 SMK's yet? With the limited data available? In my opinion you may attract a few armchair Quarter backs with statements like that but I don't believe you will attract the real LR hunters that have seen first hand the work of the SMK's and feel they have done their job.

Jeff

.
Jeff,

The HATS long range kills could never equal the number of the 300 SMK kills due to the fact that they have been around for so long. But the 300 SMK does not have to to be a better choice today (1/20/09) since something else is available. Based on the number of orders, there are shooters out there that are ready for something new for their shooting sticks.

But then again, the number of long range kills from a 338 Allen Magnum will never equal the number of long range kills from a 300 Win Mag. But the Allen Magnum is way better suited for the task than the 300 Win Mag.

The post originator is looking for the best he can get based on his posting and the title to his posting. More kills needed...... I don't think so. I have more kills with the HATS than with the 300 gr SMKs. The performance out of the HATS is much more predictable than with the 300 SMK out of my guns.....

The 300 grain SMK has been the standard for a long time..... But, then so again was the 30-30, 270 and the 30-06. That is all old news.

What we are talking about here is new developments and leading technology. There are better chamberings now as well as better bullets for the long range job.

Again, he wants to maximize his rig. Part of that equation is with a leading edge technology projectile.

Come on, you can take a 338 Edge with a 30" barrel using the 265 grain HATS @3100 fps and shoot it against the 338 Cheytac-based case also with a 30" barrel using the 300 SMK @ 3250 and the edge will surpass the Cheytac-based case before 1450 yards.

To me it is more cost efficient to spend a few bucks on some high BC bullets than to spend several thousand on a rifle with a huge case shooting the old 300 grain SMKs with 40 grains more powder and still get spanked by a RUM-based case using the HATS....... Just the facts.

This is like bolt on performance upgrades for automobiles.....

Now, I don't know what to do with that 1.75" diameter new action for the Cheytac-based case that is on the Big Brown Truck today. Just seems to me that it is more than is necessary for me at this point since I am sure the 338 Lapua Improved and the 338/300 RUM will take care of my needs in the 338 caliber.......

LV

Last edited by Lightvarmint; 01-20-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2009, 10:54 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Best long range cartridge that fits in a Mark V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightvarmint View Post
Jeff,

The HATS long range kills could never equal the number of the 300 SMK kills due to the fact that they have been around for so long. LV
This was all that you needed to say to prove my point exactly. The rest of your post was like a politicial with a photo opt.

My point was, they may indeed be better, but in my opinion you don't need to kick the tried and true bullet to the curb. I have seen many "Leading edge" technology items loose races. The new pup may be faster on a hot track. But when the running is tough the old dog will follow through.

Nothing against the bullets, when my SMK supply gets closer to gone I may even try some. TIME will tell.

Jeff
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