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berger and no expansion?

 
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  #1  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Logan, Utah
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berger and no expansion?

For the last 3 years my friend has shot his Elk and killed it each time with a 168 gr berger. Each time he tells me that the bullets had passed all the way through with no expansion and he had to track the Elk down. This year he had thought he missed because he watched the dust fly up from behind the elk, the elk took off and then about 200 yds away it collapsed. Upon seeing the Elk he realized that he did hit the Elk and the bullet had passed all the way through just as it had the other years, with no expansion. He doesn't load his own bullets, another guy does it for him. I've never had any problems like this. I use Berger bullets in 4 different rounds, they have always been perfect. Any ideas as to what is going on? Is this a common issue with Bergers?
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:43 PM
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Location: Billings, Mt
Posts: 804
Re: berger and no expansion?

I and my sons have taken many animals with the Berger bullet and have never even come close to seeing anything like this. My guess is there is something here we are not aware of.

First thing I would do is talk to the buddy doing the reloading - what bullet is he actually loading?

Don't want to start a peeing contest but this is how bad rumors get started.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2012, 12:57 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 127
Re: berger and no expansion?

These are 140gr hunting vlds out of a 6.5x284. I would say by the looks of these exit wounds that these expanded.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:01 PM
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Re: berger and no expansion?

I would make sure he is using the VLD HUNTING bullet, and not the VLD TARGET bullet.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:08 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
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Re: berger and no expansion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
I and my sons have taken many animals with the Berger bullet and have never even come close to seeing anything like this. My guess is there is something here we are not aware of.

First thing I would do is talk to the buddy doing the reloading - what bullet is he actually loading?

Don't want to start a peeing contest but this is how bad rumors get started.
Plus 1. I agree with cowboy. Many animals taken for years and years and if I was going to complain it wouldnt be from lack of expansion. Must be more to the story. The guys that use other bullets use them for less exansion and more penetration. Are you sure you are talking about a Berger and not another brand? I have seen the results you mentioned from other 168's of a different manufacturer.

Jeff
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:17 PM
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Re: berger and no expansion?

Mikeym1a,

Reports of no expansion are very rare but to say that it has never been reported isn't factual. It is very important to us that we get the specifics of this situation. I suggest that either you or the hunter you mention gets in touch with us directly so we can learn all we can. You can email me at eric.stecker@bergerbullets.com.

In the few reports we've received, we have been unable to get to the root cause of this result. This is primarily due to the infrequency of the occurances. Also, we have been unable to duplicate this result in our testing. Having said that I will offer some thoughts on potential causes.

Using Hunting bullets rather than Target or Tactical bullets (we don't make a 168 gr Tactical so that doesn't apply in this situation) is important. The thicker jacket used in the Target and Tactical bullets has proven to open up and fragment less than the hunting jackets.

Impact velocity is important. The lower the impact velocity, the less expansion and fragmentation will occur. Our Hunting bullets have been shown to open up at 1,800 fps which is low compared to many other options. The fact that you mentioned the range was 200 yards suggests that the impact velocity should have been high enough.

Trimming and repointing Berger Hunting bullets is strongly discouraged. You didn't mention that this was done but I wanted to mention it for others reading this thread. The size of the hollow point affects penetration and expansion. If the tip is repointed to be very tight, it can prevent or significantly reduce expansion.

I look forward to hearing from you so we can do all we can work toward eliminating this from ever happening.

Regards,
Eric
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2012, 01:20 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 42
Re: berger and no expansion?

+ 1 on the Berger VLD hunting bullet. the jacket is said to be thicker on the target VLD bullets which wouldn't allow them to "blow up" like the VLD hunting bullets do.
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