Long Range Hunting Online Magazine

Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Bad Scouting Signs

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 08-07-2007, 07:02 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 668
I'm not sure what had a greater impact on hunting in North idaho: The Wolf or the Californian. Ha ha Just kiddin.
Reply With Quote

Unread 08-07-2007, 09:24 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FREE RUN, MS
Posts: 774
I just happen to know a federal employee that gets paid by good ole uncle sam to KILL! Hogs, beavers, cyotes, deer, aligators and any other critter that gets in the the night in traps baited nightscopes spotlights whatever NO RULES! on call 24/7 he is provided boats trucks atv's guns the if good ole uncle sam thinks there is a predator problem there must be.

All I can say is all critters have a place and all critters must be regulated, even us!
Reply With Quote
Unread 08-07-2007, 10:01 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,841
I think my main point is this, we have a limited draw system in most of these states depending on the specific speicies of game we are talking about.

Supposedly, the reason for needing the wolf was to help natureally control the exploding game populations.

If that is the case, why do we have limited draw units where only 10 to 20% of the applicants get drawn for the permits?????

If the game populations are so far overgrown, why is it that we can not give the hunters who REALLY want to take these game animals and put them to good use, the permits to do so.

Is it not easier to regulate human hunters???? If the game populations level out or even decrease to the point where they are declining, its an easy thing to cut the number of permits given out.

Its much more difficult to tell the wolves to stop killing game.

It was mentioned that the waste killings done by wolves are the younger wolves "practicing" there killing techniques. Does anyone honestly think that a wolve will start by killing easy pray and then move onto larger more difficult game to kill once they get better at killing????

Also, these young wolves become what???? Eventually they will be older wolves and what they have learned will be passed onto other wolves. Eventually, this so called practice will become the norm for the future packs will it not???

As far as saying game populations will grow and decrease natureally that is true. Yes it did this when the wolves ran around here along time ago. BUT, there are some things that are very different now. One, these wolves, as mentioned are not the same species that lived here many years ago. They are the much larger northern species of wolves. Also, the ecosystem has not had wolves in it for a long long time. The game populations have no built in reactional defense to these wolves as they have lost the experience from when they used to be here.

ITs just like packing back into the wilderness and being able to ride horses right into a herd of elk that have more then likely never seen humans before. How many do you think you could kill before with them not being afraid of you. Its like a frieght train to the face because they have no idea how to react to this new threat. Yes in time they will learn again but at what cost.

Back to my original point, we could have managed the herds far more effienctly then wolves can but noone listened to the people that lived and hunted HERE. The ones that actually know what they are talking about in this specific case.

As far as the wolves not having much impact on hunting and game populations compared to other enviornmental conditions. Personally I think that is a crock!!!

We have had drought seasons, we have had disease, we have had severe forest fires and always, the elk herds show a steady growth over the last 50 years or so before the wolves were introduced.

I saw one study that listed the elk herds in yellowstone were over 40% smaller since the wolves were introduced. Now every study will be different but none have said the introduction of the wolves has improved the population of the elk in the area and all say there has been a larger drop in population then from any other time except when we as humans basically tried to destroy them totally like most speicies we found out west.

The main problem with wolves are that not only will they kill large numbers of big game animals, they will also drive herds out of native areas. They will change migration routes, they will effect calving areas severely. They split up the large herds which makes the elk easier game and also causes more winter kill as the smaller herds do not handle severe winters as well as larger ones.

The main problem is they are relentless chasers of game. A herd of animals will be followed indefinately until either the herd dies out or the pack dies off, one or the other.

In times of severe drought which we are in now, this added stress on the herds is even harder on their health. Again, why did we need the wolves, because alot of do gooders on the coasts thought we needed them because they once were here.

Heres an idea, there used to be grizzlies in alot of California, I am sure we could round up some of the offspring of the two 700 lb bears that have been trapped here on the rocky mountain front just 40 miles from my home and send them down and let them do whatever they want with no restrictions.

Yes its sad that these animals have been pushed back into very small areas of the country but unfortunately that was for a reason and to reintroduce them now is not only unfair to them and the other wildlife but also to humans as well.

If you keep a rattlesnake in your back yard loose. Eventually you will get bite. same thing here.

And for those that thought there were no wolves at all in Montana and northern IDaho, you are sorely mistaken. We have had healthy packs ranging from the lower Lewis and Clark national forest up to Glacier national park all along. The federal government will not tell you that but its pretty easy to prove it.

The libers can mold the facts to get done whatever they want. For an example, A few years ago they started a study in the bitterroot national forest to try to log the number if grizzly bears in the area because the libers wanted to reintroduce bears into the area.

They set up hair traps over bait stands which basically is barbed wire around a pile of rotten meat. The grizzlies would come in rub on the wire and leave hair samples, which included DNA.

After a couple years the study just stopped. IT was said because of funding issues. It later came out from those collecting the samples and data and logging the individual bears that the number of bears was so much higher then anyone ever expected that the study was quietly dropped because if the actual number of bears was known, there would be no reason to keep the grizzly on the protected status it was on and in that case the states may be able to start regulated hunting of them in certain areas. That simply would not be good to these libbers as they tried so hard to successfully stop all grizzly hunts many years ago so they just pushed the study under the rug and hopped the data would never come out.

Funny how they tend to do that. Yet still, they call for more bears, more wolves and less regulation on them from hunters. In fact they call us hunters the problem even though its us and mostly solely US that have brought every game species back from the bring of extinction to the extremely healthy populations we have today.

If one realizes that the whitetail deer was once nearly wiped out by the whiteman its hard to believe but its true. Now, the most heavily hunted game animal in the world by far, is the most populous as well. Why, Because of hunters $$$. Its not the environmentalists that are putting on billions of dollars every year for conservation programs and game management areas or territory purchasing to protect game animals for the future, its human hunters.

The east and west coast know it alls simply cause more problems then they solve. Just not sure what it will take for us to be able to take care of ourselves and get then the hell out of our back yard!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page:
Reply With Quote
Unread 08-07-2007, 11:51 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Missoula, MT USA
Posts: 278
I have never seen actual proof that there is a difference in species between what you guys call "Canadian Timberwolf" and the wolves that are indigenous to the part of the rocky mountains that is just over the boarder from where those Canadian wolves are. Link to data? Just use the three S strategy and we should be ok.
Reply With Quote
Unread 08-07-2007, 12:38 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FREE RUN, MS
Posts: 774
"If one realizes that the whitetail deer was once nearly wiped out by the whiteman its hard to believe but its true. Now, the most heavily hunted game animal in the world by far, is the most populous as well. Why, Because of hunters $$$. Its not the environmentalists that are putting on billions of dollars every year for conservation programs and game management areas or territory purchasing to protect game animals for the future, its human hunters."

Kirby Allen(50)[/QUOTE]

Very Very TRUE!
Reply With Quote
Unread 08-07-2007, 06:18 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Back in the south -NW FL..
Posts: 1,160
Originally Posted by Buffalobob View Post
The red wolf which was native to your area is pretty much lost to low population numbers which resulted with interbreeding with coyotes. I did what I could in my capacity back in the 1970's to save them but it was already too late. I never heard a hunter speak up on their behalf. My grandfather used to hunt them and coyotes with greyhounds and quarterhorses in eastern Texas back at the turn of the century (that would be the century before the last one).
Hey Buffalobob ,

Just want to say i saw a red wolf in texas around 1978 -somewhere south of texarcana .

It ran across the road in front of me early in the morning -when you see a wolf you know it ! People said ' it was probably a big coyote =nope it was a wolf w/a very reddish rusty colored coat.And had the wolf gate and run to.
I feel fortunate to have seen it.

I saw some wolf tracks in the sw idaho desert over the weekend -i'll post a picture when i get more time.
AIPAC for president !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
Unread 08-07-2007, 06:34 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Potomac River
Posts: 5,070
I feel fortunate to have seen it.
That was very nice of you to say so. The last I knew of the red wolf, it was believed to be migrating eastward.
The Smokin Fur Rifle Club
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads for: Bad Scouting Signs
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
satellite scouting ken snyder Maps, GPS and Google Earth 3 11-07-2012 12:27 AM
pre season scouting smoked Deer Hunting 3 07-28-2011 09:27 PM
Went scouting and got ARRESTED!!!! Michael Eichele Long Range Hunting & Shooting 14 12-18-2008 04:15 PM
scouting/trail cameras jon12 Equipment Discussions 3 05-21-2004 07:42 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:45 PM.

Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2015 Long Range Hunting, LLC