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Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

 
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  #36  
Old 05-16-2013, 09:42 PM
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

[QUOTE=
To the OP, no offense intended, but IMO this thread is better suited for a site like 24 hr Campfire as i don't associate the 6.5 Creedmoor with Long Range Elk Hunting.

Wow I didn't know I was in the professional long range hunting section. I do have a lot to learn about hunting and the best way to do that is ask questions. You would suggest that I should feel stupid and unworthy of asking a question in you forum. Your right that I have never shot an elk and have only been elk hunting once. We don't have a lot of elk in MN and in my line of work I don't get nearly as much time to hunt in the fall as I would like. When comparing the .300WSM and the creedmoor I don't feel it is as cut and dry as you would lead on. Lets just throw out there that we are taking a 1000 yard shot. One could argue that the 150 gr round at 3300 fps and a b.c. of .437 is just as good as the 180 gr at 3010 fps with a b.c. of .527 for the .300. The 150gr gives up a little energy but gains flatter trajectory. I used factory Winchester xp3 load data for the .300 WSM bullets. Then lets use the data that I provided in my OP. A 140 gr bullet going 2700 fps. and a .612 b.c. At 1000 yards the energy of the .300 with the 150 gr is at 687 ft lb at 1436 fps and the creedmoor with the 140 gr is at 660 ft lb's.at 1457 fps. That looks like a wash to me. Keep in mind that this is a mild load for the creedmoor. I could sacrifice a little accuracy and work up a load close if not at 2900 fps and still be under a moa. then the creedmoor would pass the .300 in fps and energy at a little over 700 yards. If you look at the numbers one could argue that the longer the shoot the better the creedmoor would be or at least just as good. So I don't feel it was a dumb question and as far as I know I asked it in the right section too.
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  #37  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:54 PM
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

Quote:
Savage110, Wow I didn't know I was in the professional long range hunting section. I do have a lot to learn about hunting and the best way to do that is ask questions. You would suggest that I should feel stupid and unworthy of asking a question in you forum. Your right that I have never shot an elk and have only been elk hunting once. We don't have a lot of elk in MN and in my line of work I don't get nearly as much time to hunt in the fall as I would like. When comparing the .300WSM and the creedmoor I don't feel it is as cut and dry as you would lead on. Lets just throw out there that we are taking a 1000 yard shot. One could argue that the 150 gr round at 3300 fps and a b.c. of .437 is just as good as the 180 gr at 3010 fps with a b.c. of .527 for the .300. The 150gr gives up a little energy but gains flatter trajectory. I used factory Winchester xp3 load data for the .300 WSM bullets. Then lets use the data that I provided in my OP. A 140 gr bullet going 2700 fps. and a .612 b.c. At 1000 yards the energy of the .300 with the 150 gr is at 687 ft lb at 1436 fps and the creedmoor with the 140 gr is at 660 ft lb's.at 1457 fps. That looks like a wash to me. Keep in mind that this is a mild load for the creedmoor. I could sacrifice a little accuracy and work up a load close if not at 2900 fps and still be under a moa. then the creedmoor would pass the .300 in fps and energy at a little over 700 yards. If you look at the numbers one could argue that the longer the shoot the better the creedmoor would be or at least just as good. So I don't feel it was a dumb question and as far as I know I asked it in the right section too.
First question... did you read the rest of my post?

Next... did you really want advise or did you just want folks to say, yeah go ahead and hunt elk with your CM?

Next.... this isn't the "professional long range site", it's the Long Range Hunting site.

My intent was not to make you feel stupid. It was to clarify the purpose of this forum. Like I said... no offense... if you take offense that's your problem.

There is no way on Earth you are going to compare a 6.5 Creedmoor to a 300 WSM. You are picking and choosing your bullets to draw twisted conclusions. In my 300 WSM, with a 24" barrel, I can get 2930 with RL17 and a 210 Berger with a BC of .631 and probably the same MV with a 215 with a BC of .696 With H4350 I can get 2750. The 210 and 215 are 50% larger than the 6.5 140 bullet with a higher BC and a higher velocity. You do the math. There is no comparison.

If you have taken the time to read posts in these forums from elk hunters who live in elk country you will see that the vast majority of them prefer 300 and 338 mags for Long Range Elk Hunting. There's a reason for that. Like I said, I have a friend who hunts elk with a 243, but not at Long Range and it would not be my first choice for any range.

I'm guessing your hunt will be in Montana or Wyoming or Colorado or some western state that offers out of state elk hunting. I don't have a problem with out of state hunters getting a chance at our elk, but guided hunters do get more priviledge than the average resident in this state and that rubs me a little. If you do come here or another state and you decide to leave your 300 or 338 at home, make sure when you pull the trigger you get the job done. You get what I'm saying?
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  #38  
Old 05-16-2013, 11:01 PM
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage110 View Post
When comparing the .300WSM and the creedmoor I don't feel it is as cut and dry as you would lead on. Lets just throw out there that we are taking a 1000 yard shot. One could argue that the 150 gr round at 3300 fps and a b.c. of .437 is just as good as the 180 gr at 3010 fps with a b.c. of .527 for the .300. The 150gr gives up a little energy but gains flatter trajectory. I used factory Winchester xp3 load data for the .300 WSM bullets. Then lets use the data that I provided in my OP. A 140 gr bullet going 2700 fps. and a .612 b.c. At 1000 yards the energy of the .300 with the 150 gr is at 687 ft lb at 1436 fps and the creedmoor with the 140 gr is at 660 ft lb's.at 1457 fps. That looks like a wash to me. Keep in mind that this is a mild load for the creedmoor. I could sacrifice a little accuracy and work up a load close if not at 2900 fps and still be under a moa. then the creedmoor would pass the .300 in fps and energy at a little over 700 yards. If you look at the numbers one could argue that the longer the shoot the better the creedmoor would be or at least just as good. So I don't feel it was a dumb question and as far as I know I asked it in the right section too.
Where your going to run into issues in comparing like the 150 to the 180 in the WSM, trajectory means almost nothing in LR hunting, once you get out there the 150 simply won't penetrate an elk very well, the 180 will do better a 200+ will do best. If you want a good comparison on what they will do on an elk compare a 215 Berger running 2900 fps and a 140 from the Creedmore running the same velocity.
I would whack an elk in a heart beat with the Creed but I would not do it much past about 600 maybe a little farther and I would stay far away from the front shoulder, I would likely choose the A-max over the Berger in this one specific instance because it will open a little better than the 140 Berger and you'd want all you can get.
Elk die just like the rest but you got to respect the bone structure on them when using lighter gear, I use rounds that are on the lighter side but you have to know the limits. I primarily us 270's in either the win or the WSM, heavy bullets with high sectional density are the ticket but I still have a 338 RUM I can pull out when it's the best tool for the situation I'm in, sometimes you need the HP to tackle the wind, the range or just to flatten them.
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  #39  
Old 05-17-2013, 05:51 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

I truly understand that you need to bring enough gun to the party so to speak. In the comparison's on paper I was just trying to get across that the two aren't that much different or at least close enough to ask the question. For the record I have never reloaded for my .300 because I just don't shoot it enough ( that will change though) to justify the expense. So the comparison was valid with the ammo that I currently have. I am planning on working up a 190 grain Berger vld round as soon as some become available or back in stock. The only reason I asked the question in the first place is that I always bring a spair gun in case something happens. Last year while hunting in Colorado my hunting partner triped and knocked my .300 over and the scope took a good hit off a rock and I did not trust it anymore. .At 17 ibs my .338 is a little cumbersome to Carry around. I have been to Montana countless times my whole life since my Mom and her whole side of her family are from there and we vacation there every year. If I were to ever leave MN I would move to MT or Alaska. Many people hate when out of staters hunt in there back yard but we really don't have much choice in the matter. If I could hunt elk on my land I would certainly do it. Hunting white tails has gotten to the point of using a bow just to make it interesting. Great fourm and thanks for all the feedback.
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  #40  
Old 05-17-2013, 08:38 AM
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage110 View Post
I truly understand that you need to bring enough gun to the party so to speak. In the comparison's on paper I was just trying to get across that the two aren't that much different or at least close enough to ask the question. For the record I have never reloaded for my .300 because I just don't shoot it enough ( that will change though) to justify the expense. So the comparison was valid with the ammo that I currently have. I am planning on working up a 190 grain Berger vld round as soon as some become available or back in stock. The only reason I asked the question in the first place is that I always bring a spair gun in case something happens. Last year while hunting in Colorado my hunting partner triped and knocked my .300 over and the scope took a good hit off a rock and I did not trust it anymore. .At 17 ibs my .338 is a little cumbersome to Carry around. I have been to Montana countless times my whole life since my Mom and her whole side of her family are from there and we vacation there every year. If I were to ever leave MN I would move to MT or Alaska. Many people hate when out of staters hunt in there back yard but we really don't have much choice in the matter. If I could hunt elk on my land I would certainly do it. Hunting white tails has gotten to the point of using a bow just to make it interesting. Great fourm and thanks for all the feedback.
Do yourself a favor and look at bullets heavier than the 190 VLD when reloading. I would suggest the 200 Accubond, 210 Long Range Accubond (depending on the results we start to see from them), the 210 VLD or 215 Berger Hybrid. The heavier bullets with high BC's are where you are really going to see the 300 separate itself from the Creedmoor. That is also where you are going to get the most bang for your buck, so to speak, from the 300.

On a side note, I just wanted to throw out there that you definitely do not want to be shooting an elk where you only have 600 ft/lbs of energy left. I saw your post about comparing the energy and I just wanted to make sure you were not planning on shooting an elk at that range. Most people suggest a minimum of 1,500 ft/lbs for an elk, which I think is a pretty good number to stay close to.
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  #41  
Old 05-17-2013, 09:14 AM
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

I don't hate out of staters hunting here. I think anyone should have the chance. The thing is things have gotten out of balance to the point that almost all the ranchers and farmers lease their rights out to outfitters leaving the average residents very little access and options. My point in bringing it up is that elk are a limited and precious resource and anyone who hunts them should do their best to do it right.

You could hunt them with a Creedmoor but the WSM will give you more flexibility and range and increase your odds of success. I agree with cohunter that heavier bullets are best for the WSM for elk hunting. My first choice would be the 215 Berger. If you have a short action which you probably do you wont be able to load them in the mag box to get the most out of the cartridge. What I did is to load one down so the nose was just above the box rim so I had at least one follow up if I needed it. I'm not really big on using the 1500 lb energy rule but it's a good wag. I look at the opening velocity of the bullet and add a few fps and for lighter bullets a little more. You want to make sure you have good penetration. Like BnG said, SD is your friend so your best with heavy for cal bullets. And penetrating the shoulder on a front quartering shot will take more velocity than penetrating the rib cage. I would not attempt it with a Creedmoor and only at closer ranges with a WSM.

So I do recommend you do some loading for your WSM. It is without question the better choice. Good luck and the best luck is no luck at all and you'll need less of it with the WSM.

Cheers
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  #42  
Old 05-17-2013, 09:32 AM
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Re: Anyone elk hunting with a 6.5 creedmoor??

The comparison is NOT valid because your ignoring the one factor that matters most in the equation, ENERGY. I love both rounds your talking about, but they cannot be compared in a hunting situation, due to the ENERGY that each of them brings to the table. An Elk at 1000m is a tougher animal than it is at 100m, due to the variables at play.

Here is an example based on 2 loads from my Ipod at 1000m.
300 win mag, 185g VLD, 3030 fps at 600 ft asl = 875.8 foot pound of energy
300 win mag, 230g Hybrid 2650 fps at 600 ft asl = 1122.3 foot pounds of energy
264 win mag, 140g VLD, 2332 fps at 600 ft asl = 383 foot pounds of energy

That's a difference of 492 foot pounds in the 185 to 140 comparison and 739 foot pounds in the 230 to 140 comparison. This is what really matters in hunting, not the drop or the wind deflection, these are not paper or steel targets. We are killing a living breathing creature and at least for myself, I take no joy in the actual act of killing the animal, the shot and prep are my reward. So we as hunters can not advocate for, or make comparisons on ballistics based of target data, who wants to make an animal suffer, not me I want as clean and fast a kill as I can obtain.
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