Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Reply

Anybody regret NOT going 338?

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #64  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:38 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,892
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
What I want to know is why would anyone compare the heavier end offering of one caliber to the lighter offering of another? Pull out the limits of the weight and compare best BC offerings and weight to best BC offerings to weight for each caliber. Then you will not be able to claim better BC, or energy for the smaller caliber by imposed limits. Why handicap either caliber? Load them up and let them shine with whatever they have to bring to the table. No limiting rules, just facts.

Jeff
This is true...I guess we could compare say the 7mm 180 VLD to the .30 210 VLD....I happen to have both sitting right here in front of me at my reloading bench...It'll be easier this way. Plus, both are near the top weight offerings in their calibers.

The 7mm 180 has a G1 BC of .659, and the .30 210 has a G1 of .631. That's 0.028 That's not a huge difference, but enough.

__________________
"I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns..." - Bob Lee Swagger

"Give me a minute...I'm good. Give me an hour...I'm great. Give me 6 months...And I'm unbeatable." - Col. Hannibal Smith

Ignore everything I say, because I have a reading comprehension and memory problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:40 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
Posts: 5,953
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunner2005 View Post
Not trying to start another ******* match, but just how is the 7mm not as good as the .30 caliber. The 7mm has a flatter trajectory, higher BC, and better wind deflection than the .30 caliber projectile of equal mass (weight)...

As far as accuracy is concerned, the Berger 7mm 180 VLD will be better at long range than a .30 Berger 185 VLD...If you compare grain-for-grain...

I'm serious, I want to know how it is not as good.

I'm not trying to be difficult, or "trolling" for reactions. I'm on a serious level now.

I think it's worth the discussion, since everyone wants to discredit the 7mm calibers in here.

Keep in mind, I do own .30 caliber rifles as well, so I don't dislike either one.
If you want to engage in an objective exchange of facts then I'll oblige.

First, 30 cal bullets have more mass than 7mm bullets of like shape so comparing grain to grain is not comparing apples to apples. To compare apples to like we'll compare the ballsically best bullets for each, i.e. the 284 180 hybrid and the 308 215 and 230 hybrids.

180, .674 G1, .345 G7
215, .696 G1, .356 G7
230, .743 G1, .380 G7

The 308 bullets have higher BC's

If we are shooting out of the STW and RUM we are probably getting 3200 fps with the 180's and 3150 for the 215's and 3000 for the 230's

At 1000 yds and 3000 ft elev the Vel, Energy and 10 mph Wind is

180, 2055, 1688, 3.92 MOA
215, 2047, 2000. 3.87 MOA
230, 1988, 2018, 3.85 MOA

The external ballistics are a wash. The 308 bullets make bigger holes and hit harder and that's what counts. That's why a 7mm bullet is not as good as a 308 bullet.
__________________
- Mark

You will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you make good use of it.
~ John Quincy Adams
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:42 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
Posts: 7,900
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Already done it with the 7mm-300win verses the 300 win at 1000 plus side by side. But when you introduce the 30 cal 215 Berger with a BC of .696 or the 230 with a BC of .743 things start to get rough on the 7mm.

Jeff
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:42 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: southeast Idaho
Posts: 273
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunner2005 View Post
This is true...I guess we could compare say the 7mm 180 VLD to the .30 210 VLD....I happen to have both sitting right here in front of me at my reloading bench...It'll be easier this way. Plus, both are near the top weight offerings in their calibers.

The 7mm 180 has a G1 BC of .659, and the .30 210 has a G1 of .631. That's 0.028 That's not a huge difference, but enough.



Now add the 215 and 230. There really is no end . ''Terminally'' bigger, heavier, hits harder. Live it ,learn it.,Drop it.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:47 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,892
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSS View Post
This reminds or the ricer vs V8 argument in the car world: "my 2.5 L 4 cly motor makes 100 hp / liter of displacement, your 6.0 v8 only makes 60 hp / L so my 4 cly better."

The fact that one is making nearly twice the power and blows the doors off the other doesn't seem to matter in this line of thinking..
Completely different, but I think the argument carries. I'm not calling you or a 7 a "ricer" caliber, but bigger is generally better in some things in all out performance. It may not be as efficient and there may be a trade off in other areas, but in terms of raw performance and energy delivered down range a 338 will beat an 8 mm will beat a 300 will beat a 7 mm if each is being pushed to their limits.

And that is why I like my cars with v8's and turbos.
Hey now, I hate imports, too. LOL but the 7mmSTW is like the Lambo and the .338 Lapua is like the GTSR Viper.....Both will go 230, but the Lambo will get there faster...Sorry, I just like that analogy better since it's more appropriate vehicle-to- caliber ratio. The STW is the lightweight speedfreak, and the Lapua is the heavier hitting cousin.

I think both are great calibers used in their proper respects... But for me, there is no need for anything that large, as the biggest thing around here is a black bear and whitetails.

I do understand expansion diameter and heavier bullets retain more energy at equal distance and all that stuff. All I was saying is that there is no need to completely dog on the 7mm as if it were some slouch, ya know? It just seems like there is alot of disdain for the 7mm as if it were some bastard child of the bullet world. That was all I was wondering was why there is so little credit given, when it deserves more respect than it was getting.

I do appologise for earlier, I will make no excuses. Now maybe we can get this forum back on the road...
__________________
"I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns..." - Bob Lee Swagger

"Give me a minute...I'm good. Give me an hour...I'm great. Give me 6 months...And I'm unbeatable." - Col. Hannibal Smith

Ignore everything I say, because I have a reading comprehension and memory problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-06-2013, 10:35 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 268
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
X-Man,

You implied in a very general way that the lighter the rifle, the easier it would be to hit your target. That is just not accurate. The OP included elk on the menu, not just whitetail. If you notice, I haven't made any recommendation at all to the OP as to specific cartridge. IMO, that's a subjective decision he will have to make. I just brought up some stats and facts.

If it was me looking at the same parameters, I would choose the 300 RUM in a Sendero type of configuration which weighs about 12 lbs topped with a NF scope and carrying a Harris bi-pod. This is in fact what I trek around the mountains and plains with and it is very capable of accurate consistent 1K shots when dialed in with a good load. The 300 WM can do it and the RUM can do it better and 338 can do it better yet. My compromise is the RUM at present time and one I feel very comfortable with. I may decide to upgrade to a Lapua or equal someday. I guarantee you (for the sake of other readers) I will never down grade to a 7mm when it comes to very long range, 1K, elk hunting. Can the 7 do it? Yup, but I feel a whole lot better pulling the trigger on a 1K elk with a big 300 or better.

The golf club analogy is an interesting one. A nine iron will get you 90-100 yds and a driver will get you 250-300. You might pick a 5 iron because it's easier for you on the fairway, but you just wont get 3 Wood results. Always a trade off.
Thanks for the well thought out reply.

Everyone has a different idea of what long range is and what sort of hunting rifle best suites their hunting style/terrain. A lighter caliber for a lighter rifle was sort of where I was going.The lighter rig being more mobile not more accurate/stable.

Your 12 pound rig is exactly the route chosen by my good buddy. Not a bad set up at all.

Your disdain for the 7mm and assorted "pea shooters" is understood.
At one time I had no use for such calibers either, but with modern high performance controlled expansion bullets they are sure death within their respective expansion range. For me the jury is still out on a 7mm Berger at 3500fps (for instance) at 25 yards, but that is just me. I too prefer a bit more horsepower latitude on game such as elk.

If you don't feel a rifle or caliber then you will not be confident in it and should not use it.
Beware of the man that is confident in the same rifle...He might just surprise you!
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-06-2013, 10:38 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 268
Re: Anybody regret NOT going 338?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Sorry if this post bothered you, it is off the OP's question, a little, but he did ask about a .338 so these video's are of value to represent the difference when you go past 1000. I gave a real world answer to the best of my personal experience on the first page.

Jeff
My bad.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC