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Amax verses Berger

 
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2012, 05:05 AM
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Re: Amax verses Berger

correction
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2012, 05:07 AM
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Re: Amax verses Berger

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHR View Post
It's funny you mention going to a heavier and slower bullet because I just told told my shooting partner today that I was strongly considering trying a box of the 180 grain Bergers when I finished up the amaxs I already have. The only reason I have not already tried them is because I'm concerned that my rifle may not be able to stabilize them with a 9-1/4 inch twist rate. Any thoughts?

The doe in my area average around 95 lbs with 80 lbs being on the small end and 130 lbs being unusually large. A 2-1/2 year old buck weighs in around 160 lbs with a trophy size animal weighing between 190 and 215 lbs.

We hunt huge bean fields with the average shot being around 300 yds but numerous opurtunities out to 600 yds. We have to really look hard to find a shot longer than about 650 yds.


Stability becomes an important item to consider when going to the longer VLD's. Berger recommends a 1:9 twist when running the 180 VLD's. The extra .25" twist that you have should not prove to be to noticeable in your shooting. I do not see any problems in running the 180's out of your 1:9.25 twist barrel. I personally do not think you will see any stability issues out to 650 yards with the 180 VLD's out of a 1:9.25 twist barrel. If you were to start shooting out to and past a grand, I would do some testing to see what the stability is like. Even then, I feel that you won't see any ill effects on stabilization.

Although the the smaller, 90lbs - 120lbs animals that you are telling me about are still on the small side for the 7mm Rem Mag and I would not attempt a shot on this size game under 200 - 250 yards.

Since most of your shots are beyond 300 yards I think you would be okay in terms of damage to edible meet on heavier game i.e 150+ lbs. With good bullet placement, a few inches behind the front shoulders, on game that you may want to have a trophy mount i.e. 150+ lbs, should prove to be the safer shot from 300 yards and further. Even with good bullet placement right behind the front shoulder, the 7mm Rem Mag on larger weight classed game, will create considerable damage to the heart/lung cavity as well as the gastrointestinal cavity as well.

On game such as the smaller white tails in your area with weights in the 85 lb - 120 lb weight range, where trophy mounts are not an issue, I would go for a neck shot or even a head shot. The weights of the smaller game are just to small for the 7mm Rem Mag to really consider a conventional "behind the front shoulder shot" at distances under 200 yards, the risk of damaging edible meet is just to high.

Again, shots under the 200 - 250 yard mark I would not take unless I could be certain that I could place the bullet in the neck or head region and even past those ranges I would still be cautious of my bullet placement. On small game in the 90 lb to 120 lb weight range I would not attempt to place a round behind the shoulder unless they were out around the 450 yard mark. Even with great bullet placement at these ranges on small game you are going to damage a lot of the internal organs. I think you'll find that the rounds ends up exploding the in entire heart/lung and gastrointestinal cavity.

I think going to the 175's and the 180's is the right direction when shooting the 7mm Rem Mag at the White Tail in your area. If it were me, I would want to see my muzzle velocity below 2900 fps. Ideally I would want it to be below 2850 fps to ensure less damage to the game and the edible meet.

Either way, you are not going to be trailing the animal to far with the 7mm Rem Mag.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:14 AM
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Re: Amax verses Berger

BHR, I live in Georgia where whitetails are the main big game.We have a 12 deer limit annually.Over a 10 yr. span, among family and shooting aquaintances,you get results from over 1000 deer kills. A-max, Ballistic silvertips, and Matchkings are the best deer killers we have seen. Bergers and Accubonds are the worst. Gary
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:36 AM
BHR BHR is offline
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Re: Amax verses Berger

Surgeon, i appreciate the time you spent on your response and there is a wealth of knowledge embedded within those paragraphs. Iv'e been very hesitant to say what i'm about to say but here goes....I don't care about damage to meat. I know this is going to offend many people here but the whole story is that in my area we have a major over population of deer and crop damage is reality. The farmer whose land i hunt had to replant 2 fields totaling approximately 150 acres of soybeans last year because the deer simply ate the entire field over a period of 2 weeks. Because of this the farmer brought in a group of dog hunters and allowed them access to a 1500 acre portion of the 3500 acre farm for the last week of hunting season. 43 deer were killed over the course of 4 hunts, and the dog hunters don't care if the deer are trophies or yearling does. The bottom line is that if we don't use all of the assigned doe tags this year, then the dog hunters will be back in late December to shoot the 15 inch bucks that we've been letting walk. I have located an organization in a nearby city that will accept all the deer we deliver for butcher and redistribution to the needy. At this point seeing as the drive is an hour round trip i would like to waste as little time as possible following blood trails in the dark.

With all that said and hopefully behind us........ Gary, THANKS...that is exactly the information i was looking for.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2012, 11:20 AM
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Re: Amax verses Berger

BHR--I am in SC as well. PM sent.
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2012, 08:16 PM
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Re: Amax verses Berger

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraedge View Post
BHR, I live in Georgia where whitetails are the main big game.We have a 12 deer limit annually.Over a 10 yr. span, among family and shooting aquaintances,you get results from over 1000 deer kills. A-max, Ballistic silvertips, and Matchkings are the best deer killers we have seen. Bergers and Accubonds are the worst. Gary
I am not surprised about the A-Max, Bal. Sil/BT's, but the SMK results is a surprise, I figured the Berger would come out on top of SMK. Are you using heavy Accubonds at slow velocities?
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2012, 09:49 PM
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Location: GSP, SC, USA
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Re: Amax verses Berger

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHR View Post
Load #1 168 grain Berger VLD Hunting at an average MV of 3060. SD of about 50
Load #2 162 grain Hornady Amax at an average MV of 3020. SD of less than 10


So, if whitetail deer is my primary game animal, which bullet do yall think will give me the shortest blood trails?

Thanks, Bryan
Bryan, "I have the need for speed" #1 is 6 grains bigger and 40' per sec faster. No contest. That extra time on target could let the deer move= a miss at 650yds. with #2.

I shoot a 338WM 185GMX & TTSXs for ELK & EVERYTHING now, was a 270 for 45 yrs. but From What I have read you need an exploding 140gr "Ballistic silvertip" @ 3100 to 3270 fps. Below is what I would work up too.
I know nothing about these loads but it could be worked toward....
0.181 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds) @3,270 aint bad shooting!!! I know people who would give a left one for that.

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!
Load 9543 detail in caliber 7mm Remington Magnum. Print format
Load 9543 in caliber 7mm Remington Magnum
LoadID
9543
Nosler Ballistic Tip
140 grs
Alliant Reloader 22
68 grs
Federal 215
Brass Remington
Barrel Length
26 (inches)
C.O.L
3.19 (inches)
Velocity
3270 fps
Group
0.181 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds)
Submitted Date
10/23/2004 4:10:00 AM
Submitted By
Bob Lasson
Gun Info
Savage 110
Comment
Reloader 22 better then 5 other powders tryed.
================================================== ====
LoadID
7785
Nosler Ballistic Tip
140 grs
Alliant Reloader 22
68 grs
Federal 215
Brass Remington
Barrel Length
26 (inches)
C.O.L
3.19 (inches)
Velocity
3130 fps
Group
0.5 (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds)
Submitted Date
6/7/2003 1:18:00 AM
Submitted By
Jim L.
Gun Info
Comment
Sendero Jewell Trig
===============================================
Good luck and ck your Private Messages
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