Kirby has been up front about this Neb. hunt before he even went on it. I'm glad he posted the story and pics, it was very interesting. If you don't like hunting in a fence don't. If you want to harvest a large bull and save lots of money do it. I have been to CO mostly archery hunting, once with the rifle, in 10 years I shot 3 elk. I probably have close to $10,000 invested and not one head on the wall. 20 years from now I might be shooting one in a large pen, when I can no longer climb the hills.
Here in WI a fellow about 20 miles away raises elk. He is on 320 acres. His hunting pen is 80 acres dead flat and well wooded. The first 3 years he allowed bow hunters to hunt the pen for 5 days at $2500. One hunter at a time 10 cows and 2 nice bulls in the pen at all times. In 10 weeks only 3 elk were harvested. Deffinatly not a easy hunt. WI produces many of the top archery hunters in the country, this is testament to elks abillity to become very wary even when pen raised. Now he offers rifle hunts for $4500 because the bow hunters couldn't kill the elk and his herd needs reducing.
Congrats guys, you guys are doing exactly what the anti's or PETA loves to see. In fighting and there is no opponent. Remember guys, ultimatly you are on the same team.
There goes the neighborhood. What does PETA have to do with it? Every time there is a debate on this board somebody plays the PETA card saying that this arguing is giving them ammunition and and causing seperation between us. Give it a break already. From a different point of view we might say "hunting caged animals is giving PETA more angles with which to attack hunters....". Not that I'm saying that, but it could be said.
I don't hunt high fence places because there are plenty of free ones in the woods already and that is my choice. Keeping wild animals in non-natural captivity breeds diseases like brucelosis which can then be transferred to wild animals through escapes or mixing over food. It also has the potential to muddy up the gene pool. I am concerned with the underlying message that the success of these types of operations is sending out: that hunting is something that can be totally privatized. This is already going on at an alarming rate and I think it's the single biggest threat to the future of the sport.
I hope I'm not offending anyone with my thoughts on the matter but that's how I feel.
No offense at all and you bring up some valid points.
I would like to point out however that the record keeping and testing that is required on these animals is nothing short of amazing. They are held to standards that make out cattle population look like something you would throw in the trash.
When we killed these bulls, we had to spend 30 minutes doing paperwork, taking tissue samples and all the required steps to submit what was needed on each bull.
When you kill a cow for meat, what tests are required to see if they are carrying any diseases? Pretty much if they can walk into the slaughter house and "look alright to me", they are put into the public food chain.
Where I live in north central Montana, we had many large elk "farms" in the area, the strict oversight that was placed on those businesses was amazing, FAR exceeding anything required for any other livestock.
Is that a good thing, certainly, just for the reasons you brought up but I assure you, these legit hunting ranches are held to animal quality standards far in excess of anything you would see with cattle ranchers.
Not to the debate about high fence hunting, your opinion is fine with me. If I had elk out my back door it would be alot easier as well. You are lucky to have that. I have nice whitetails and pronghorns, I am lucky to have that.
Thanks for your points and I agree, civil debate is never a bad thing.
Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.
I, for one appreciate all of the effort and testing that goes into each of your wildcats. It is one of the reasons that I chose to have you build a 338am for me. With my work load I could never have the time nor the opportunity to work through all of the details that are involved in developement. It is reassureing to know that there has been a lot more than just chrono data and paper punching and speculation going into a custom rifle and the way it is to perform.
It is with anticipation that I look forward to my rifle being completed, and now I can add even more respect for your throughness in developement.
Living in Montana you should be better informed on Brucellosis. High fence hunting operations or any private ranches are not disease pools. The only incedence of Brucellosis in the US right now is the Greater Yellowstone area and you can thank the Federal Government and every other expert that has been involved in that mess. State and Federal agencies have long blamed CWD on game farms which is being refuted all the time. As Kirby stated, high fence operations are highly regulated and you have interstate shipment requirements for all livestock with regards to testing. If you have disease concerns it will probably originate in cattle or some other domestic livestock not a high fence operation. Where do you think Brucelosis originated? Your point on escapes and the gene pool is a valid one though. There is a lot of elk with red deer genes on game farms out there.
There goes the neighborhood. What does PETA have to do with it? .
I apologize for bringing up that 4 letter word. It's just that what I have read or seen appears to be long beyond 2 people having a discussion about a certain type of hunting. I see 1 person constantly defending himself for what he has done and I simply don't think he should have to defend his actions to anyone.
Fact is PETA has nothing to do with the thread/posts/subject at hand yet, 2 people with the same passion/desire seem to be fighting over nothing. My Point is/was that with all the people against all of us, we do not need to devide and argue amungst each other.
Congrats on the trophy Kirby, I hope someday I get a chance like that.
We must face it sooner or later and get over our differences because whether we like or not hunting behind high fences is going to become more common, if we don't get our ducks in a row there won't be any hunting period!! A trophy is a trophy. A trophy shot is a trophy earned. While I hold wild trophies in higher esteem, I dont diss anyone who shoots a high fence animal. And kirby has a point he needs to test his product before giving it to the public. As a resident of Montana access is very limited so chances of getting an elk are rare. I 've worked my butt off for many seasons and have yet to get an elk. So kirby does what he needs to prove his product so he can sell it to the public. Good job again kirby and keep it up.
__________________ Lefty's are the normal ones in the shootin world!!