That is true about the large percentage of hunters not shooting at big game animals over 500 yards. BUT would they if they had a long range gun and the skill? I only have the skill to shoot out to 600 yards right now because I only have a gun that can cleanly take animals out that far. I had a nice mule deer buck at 1020 yards this year and I couldn't get close enough to him to make the 500 to 600 yard shot that I know that I can make. If I had a 1000 yard gun and the practice, I would have loved to make that shot on him. I am sure there are many, many shooters in my category. The gun company that caters to both is gonna come out on top.
I plan on changing my 600 yard skill up to 1000 yard skill sometime this coming or the next year when I get a LR rifle. Until then, I will have to stick to my shorter range shots.
I agree with your suggestion on the added opportunity for John to also offer products that appeal to the over 500 yard crowd here. But I just took a fresh look at our "Your Longest Shot On Big Game" POLL. Very informative.
. Attachment 4316
It appears that 65% of the respondents did not kill a big game animal in the last 12 months at more than 500 yards. If they are representative, this means that 200,000 of the 300,000 different monthly visitors to this site did not kill a big game animal at more than 500 yards.
Speaking of that poll, is it supposed to let you 'update' your info every 12 months?
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Location: The rifle range, or archery range or behind the computer in Alaska
Re: 8.59 Titan Lazzeroni
Originally Posted by LazzInc
oh I have no doubt that you are making first round hits at extreme ranges in the field, you have obviously dedicated a great deal of your time to figuring out how to do it right ,,,,,,
but I also think that you are NOT doing it EVERY TIME no matter how good your ballistic calculation methods are ,,,, mistakes happen ,,,
Especially at really long ranges, 800 yards and beyond ,,,, there are just too many little things that can add up to big things, not the least of which is the animal moving or taking a step, just about the moment the bullet is launched ,,,,, or that dreaded wind shift, change of direction or change in velocity anywhere between you and the target ,,,,
I can tell that you have worked hard to eliminate as many of these variables as possible, but I don’t think you can take away all of them, including the human factors involved ,,,,,
I am going to dive into this extensively, testing and shooting various components over the next 30 days and announce two new model Lazzeroni L2012XTLR rifles at the SHOT SHOW in Las Vegas ,,,,,,
Stay tuned ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well John, youre right. I can't always make a first round hit at extreme ranges. Do you know how I know that? Because I shoot alot of paper targets. I set up and shoot regardless of the conditions. Why? Because I have NOTHING to loose. This allows me to actually KNOW my limits and to know what good conditions/bad conditions are and what bad conditions are when they look like good conditions.
Hunting is different. Unless there is a real need to take a shot I am not 100% sure I can make, I dont take it. I pass alot of shots and will continue to do so if things are not right. If I took shots I was not comfortable with then I am sure things would be different and my record would suck. So what if conditions are not always right. Sometimes they are and sometimes they are not. I take the good shots and pass the bad. This is the reason my record is as good as it is.
I can think of two occasions since Y2K that I have missed on the 1st shot (not counting a 133 yard off hand shot). In both cases, the end result was still 2 dead animals and they were both clean. One was a miss-jugment of wind and the other was an angle steep enough and a distance far enough that a 7 degree error caused a high hit. Even your warbird may or may not have helped in this case. It would have been closer but not close enough. Honestly, I was not comfortable with the shot but had no choice to take it since my buddy had wounded it already. A less than perfect opportunity was better than letting him suffer. The third shot dropped him and for good. Now 702 yard is not that far. Its getting there, but for the conditions it was a shot I am very proud of. So yes, you're right.....
Aside from those two, my record is clean. Before you laugh, just remember, I am also VERY picky about which shots I take and which ones I pass. We are under enough scruitiny and are accused of poor ethics by many other hunters. The last thing I will ever do is prove those people right by taking less than ideal shots and wounding/loosing game.
I am not trying to toot may own horn here. There are MANY users here that can do the same and quite a few that could put myself to shame. Either way, I think you would be suprised how often myself and others do make 1st round hits at distance be it at the range or in the field.
Do yourself a favor and get some of Shawn's DVD's. You can first hand witness 1st round kills at distances that will blow your mind. Distances I can't compete with. 1st round hit in this community are more common that you think.
I look forward to seeing your new rifle and honestly wish it and you success. Please keep us posted. If there is anything we can do to help, let us know.
Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
that poll is probably very accurate ,,,, 9 out of 10 Lazzeroni rifles that I deliver today, are in the 7.82 Warbird caliber, they leave my factory with a 3-12X42 or 4-16X50 Schmidt and Bender Precision-hunter scope, with front focal plane mounted mil-dot reticle, professionally mounted and zero’ d by me at 300 yards ,,,,,,,
this gives the customer a turn-key rig, hold dead on from point-blank to 350yards, first mil-dot down below center is 500, half way between is 400 ,,,, don't worry about the wind unless the shot is longer than 350 yards, and then hold one mil-dot into the wind, for each 10mph wind speed, on a direct cross wind ,,,,,
with range practice, the customer can go to 650 yards, using the second mil-dot below center ,,,,, same wind hold applies ,,,,
that takes care of 98% of all shots he/she will ever take in the field, on 95% of all game animals in North America ,,,,,,,
It's good to see you on this site. I've been drooling over your Warbird for a very long time. Can't wait to see the new LR version. I'm sure it will be a hell of a rifle. I've always wanted your original sporter with the lazz stock. It's about the nicest looking rifles I've ever seen. Good to see you're here and best of luck to you.