7mm WSM or 7mm rem mag?

[linksmechanic]

Frank21 I also agree. The 7rm had a slight advantage with the 168 and over bullet weights. I have seen 50 fps on average shooting 180's with the 7rm and wsm.

[loaders_loft]

I was faced with the same question because I owned a 7mm rem mag in a 700 adL and then won a 7mm wsm ultimate shadow.

I sold the adL because it kicked too hard. Maybe it was just the gun itself not the cartridge.

However, the ultimate shadow just wouldn't shoot accurately and I could never achieve the velocities in my manual. Long story short, my ultimate shadow is off being re-barrelled with a 26" pacnor super match, then a new trigger & stock should make this a real nice rig.

Reloading the wsm cartridge is nice & easy and midway has everything you need - I don't usually buy reloading stuff locally anyway. the shipping is cheaper than tax + fuel...

If you just want to buy a gun straight out, grab that Coyote for sale above.

If you're building from scratch, and its mostly target shooting, go long action, long barrel wsm.

[DannoBoone]

I was going through the same proccess last year of choosing which round
to use, add one more, the 7mm RUM. The end decision was the 7mm WSM.

Got a left-hand 27" barreled action from Montana Rifle and stocked it with
a Richard's Microfit (HA!) stock. (They should call it a macrofit as the name
misrepresents how the stock fits the rifle!)

Why MR? They were the only company without going toooo expensively
custom which supplied everything I wanted: left hand, #6 light target
barrel contour, stainless, AND a 3.125" magazine. The magazine easily
handles 168 VLD's when loaded long.

I took care of the brass problem by ordering 500 cases from Midway. That
should take care of the life of the barrel without worry of not finding
ammo.

Had a problem of getting the brass right for this very tight chamber and
first groups were disappointing. After getting that problem solved, she
started putting bullets in the same holes @ 50yds, so it's time to back
up.

There's been a lot of personal work put into this semi-custom project,
but it shows promise, and this rifle is the most pleasant recoiler I have
ever shot. It just does not jump and I can almost keep it on target (the
bottom of the scope still shows up 1/4-1/3 of the target during recoil).

Would I recommend this project? ONLY if one is skilled to the point of
hogging out a barrel channel (I used a router for the rough stuff) and
can deepen inletting 1/8-3/16".

As for the caliber choice I made.............do I regret not getting a 7 RM
or 7 RUM? Nope.

[Bravo 4]

Toss a coin.
Splitting hairs... is never fun.

[3006savage]

Originally Posted by FRANK21

I have both cartridges mentioned in custom tactical rifles. I load for both and they are ballistic twins in ALL regards. IMO, the 7WSM is a 7mmRM in a S/A. No more, no less.

Here is my take on Mr. 3006Savages comments.

1. In theory, yes. However, I have yet to see a REAL difference with a field rifle in field conditions.

2. Not the case, Im running single digit ESs in both my 7mmRMs and 7WSM. Proper case prep, and loading goes a LONG way in this dept. Both cartridges are splendid LR performers. I dont worry much about BR shooting, because I mainly do field shooting- no return to battery rests, super stable rests, no 30LB rifles, wind flags, etc.

3. Negative. Proper chambering, and die set up is critical for either- belted or non belted.

4. Cant really comment, other than a 1/2 pound heavier/lighter or inch longer/shorter, has never made much of a difference to me. To some people and for some applications it does. To each thier own.

5. BS. When loaded to the same pressures they basically run identical velocities.. What I have found is that when both cartridges are confined to thier respective action lenghts/mag confines, the 7mmRM will outrun the WSM with heavy long bullets- due to the long bullets encroaching on case cap of the WSM.

Dont put much stock in the factory ammo ballistics guide when regarding 7mmRM performace potential, simply because it is widely known that 7mmRM factory ammo is severly underloaded..

Frank I dont want to be confrontational but I disagree with just about everything in your post. Starting with item #1. The short mag performance vs the traditional mags is not theory, it has been well established over last couple years. One only need look at the 79 grain 300 WSM go toe to toe with the larger 90.4 grain 300 Win Mag. I dont think you can claim the factory win mag load are severly underloaded.

Item #2. The case prep may go a long way, but on balance the shorter cases have clearly shown superior velocity control. I reference the benchrest shooters because these conditions allow the performance advantages to be quantified much more effectively than the field conditions you are shooting under. This year a 7mm WSM chambered 1000 yd Light Gun shot one of the best groups ever at 2.67". This is especially impressive considering this cartridge is nearly nonexistant in benchrest competition. The Rem Mag has never matched this despite its popularity and that it has been around for over 40 years. It would seem to me a cartridge that has some long range advantages.

Item#3. I guess this item is subjective, but I would point out the case design of the WSM closely models after the recent crop of steep shouldered short benchrest cases.

Item#4. You may not find moving a 1/2 pound of steel from the action to barrel as being desireable but most shooter would disagree with you.

Item#5. I first ask if your two rifle barrels are the same length. My experience with the two rounds are quite different. My model 700 7mm Rem Mag velocities were consistently 100+ fps behind my shooting buddys Kimber 7WSM at all bullet weights up to 175 grain NP. In addition the Sammi pressure limit for the WSM is 65,000 vs 61,000 for the RM so I cannot see the RM keeping pace, with the longer powder case and lower design pressure.

[phorwath]

Loaded to the same pressures, I believe the 7mm RM and the 300 WM will shoot as fast, or faster with the same bullets out of same length barrels as the 7mm WSM and the 300 WSM. I expect others will jump in with the finer points and opinions and we'll have a free-for-all before this has run its course.

Yes, if you reload cartridges in the 7mm RM and the 300 WM to 58,000 to 61,000 psi and load the 7mm WSM and 300 WSM to 65,000 psi, the WSMs may shoot a little faster. But I think there's not a knat's a$$ difference if the cartridges are loaded to equal pressures - which is basically what Frank21 said.

And since Lapua and RWS don't make 300 WSM and 7mm WSM brass (to my knowledge), one might be further ahead with the 7mm RM or 300 WM. Pretty sure RWS makes 7mm RM and 300 WM brass. I've got some RWS 7mm RM brass and I've read RWS continues to manufacture 300 WM brass.

[FRANK21]

Originally Posted by 3006savage

Frank I dont want to be confrontational but I disagree with just about everything in your post. Starting with item #1. The short mag performance vs the traditional mags is not theory, it has been well established over last couple years. One only need look at the 79 grain 300 WSM go toe to toe with the larger 90.4 grain 300 Win Mag. I dont think you can claim the factory win mag load are severly underloaded.

Item #2. The case prep may go a long way, but on balance the shorter cases have clearly shown superior velocity control. I reference the benchrest shooters because these conditions allow the performance advantages to be quantified much more effectively than the field conditions you are shooting under. This year a 7mm WSM chambered 1000 yd Light Gun shot one of the best groups ever at 2.67". This is especially impressive considering this cartridge is nearly nonexistant in benchrest competition. The Rem Mag has never matched this despite its popularity and that it has been around for over 40 years. It would seem to me a cartridge that has some long range advantages.

Item#3. I guess this item is subjective, but I would point out the case design of the WSM closely models after the recent crop of steep shouldered short benchrest cases.

Item#4. You may not find moving a 1/2 pound of steel from the action to barrel as being desireable but most shooter would disagree with you.

Item#5. I first ask if your two rifle barrels are the same length. My experience with the two rounds are quite different. My model 700 7mm Rem Mag velocities were consistently 100+ fps behind my shooting buddys Kimber 7WSM at all bullet weights up to 175 grain NP. In addition the Sammi pressure limit for the WSM is 65,000 vs 61,000 for the RM so I cannot see the RM keeping pace, with the longer powder case and lower design pressure.

Savage,

The traditional mags and the short mags are not new to me. I currently own a load for 2 7mmRMs, 1- 7WSM, 1- 300WSM. I have had a number of 300WMs to boot.

Interesting you bring up the 300WM Vs 300WSM, being that I have had many 300WMs and currently have a 300WSM, I can tell you matter of factly that the WSM can NOT match the performace of the 300WM, despite my likeing the WSM better. I launched 190s over 3100FPS with a stiff charge of '22 via 26" 300WM. My 300WSM will barely eek 3000FPS with the same bullet via 29" tube. I dont have much use for 300WM factory ammo or any factory ammo for that matter, but Chronos dont lie- FGGM 190s clocked 2925avg via the said 300WM, handloads went 3100FPS. Underloaded? You be the judge.

Proper case prep, die setup, and loading is a MAJOR factor in any chambering, more so when eeking out the most in a magnum chambering. No way around it...Period.

Again, I dont much care what the BR shooters are doing with ultra trick, <1/4MOA, 30LB rifles on benches, known distance targets, wind flags, and on square ranges. Two totaly different rifle setups and shooting disaplines. By your logic everyone should be shooting PPCs, since they are the BR crowds love affair.

I hunt/shoot prone- in the mud and crud, with a bipod and bag. BR rifles need not apply. Heck, Im actually even touching my rifle when I shoot it..... I cant shoot 1/4MOA in field conditions, you cant either. .5MOA is flat assed awesome for field conditons. .75-1MOA is very good.

Item 4. Reread my post- To ME it doesnt matter, to some and for some applications, it does.

Item 5. Both of my 7mmRMs sport 28" tubes, my 7WSM sports a 27" tube, my 300WSM sports a 29" tube. Since Im a handloader, I dont worry much about SAMMI pressure specs, being they are a guide for... FACTORY loaded ammo. Like Ive said before when loaded to like pressures, the WSM and the RM will basically have duplicate velocities. That is not a guess or assumption, simply because Chronos dont lie. Again this is experience gained from loading and shooting the said cartridges, not the latest Federal ammo ballistics guide.