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7mm accuracy problems

 
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  #22  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:47 AM
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Re: 7mm accuracy problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tinsley View Post
Again! Very good stuff!!! Kirby, thanks for the info on the weatherby action. ( I learned something) While the issue of weatherby actions come up, can any tell me if a (I think) browning bbr action is in any way like a weatherby? I have a chance to buy one an just wondering!
I would stay away from the browning receiver. They use very fine threads, EXTREMELY fine threads on newer models which makes them pretty tricky to get a barrel off if you have to. Also, their receivers are extremely brittle, if you use the wrong receiver wrench, its VERY Easy to crack the Browning receivers between the bottom two bolt lug supports in the receiver. Finally, Browning as a company is TERRIBLE to work with if something goes wrong with a rifle or receiver. I have faught with them on three different occasions on behalf of customers with their full factory Brownings and every time I got the same replies that it was the fault of the customer but that Browning would sell them a replacement rifle at cost which was nearly the same price as what the customer could get one for at any local sporting good shop.

The cast Browning receivers are not very easy to work with, I would recommend staying away from them.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #23  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:50 AM
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Re: 7mm accuracy problems

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Originally Posted by Sagedaddy View Post
Thanks roninflag, I think I'm gonna pull out some new brass and start over. I'm havin a hard time finding h1000 around here. But I have some rl15 plus some other good possible powders. I'll give it a shot and let you guys know how it goes. Think I'm gonna start off with cci 250s and see where it goes from there
RL15 is pretty fast burning for your application. That's going the opposite direction then trying H-1000. I am sure you could work up a load using RL15 but you would REALLY need to be careful watching your pressures because you will pressure out with a relatively low load density and when you get there, pressures will skyrocket quickly!!!
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #24  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:59 AM
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Re: 7mm accuracy problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
I would stay away from the browning receiver. They use very fine threads, EXTREMELY fine threads on newer models which makes them pretty tricky to get a barrel off if you have to. Also, their receivers are extremely brittle, if you use the wrong receiver wrench, its VERY Easy to crack the Browning receivers between the bottom two bolt lug supports in the receiver. Finally, Browning as a company is TERRIBLE to work with if something goes wrong with a rifle or receiver. I have faught with them on three different occasions on behalf of customers with their full factory Brownings and every time I got the same replies that it was the fault of the customer but that Browning would sell them a replacement rifle at cost which was nearly the same price as what the customer could get one for at any local sporting good shop.

The cast Browning receivers are not very easy to work with, I would recommend staying away from them.
Thanks Kirby!!!! That's all I needed to know!! I had a funny feeling about them from the start, just needed input from someone that knows more than I do bout this stuff!

DT
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  #25  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:31 AM
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Re: 7mm accuracy problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tinsley View Post
Thanks Kirby!!!! That's all I needed to know!! I had a funny feeling about them from the start, just needed input from someone that knows more than I do bout this stuff!

DT
Old browning rifles are nice rifles, relatively recent Browning rifles leave ALOT to be designed. Most are decent for a general purpose hunting rifle but for any customizing, they are a very poor choice and they can be spoiled easily with cracked receivers or gauled barrels. One reason they use very fine receiver threads, I believe 32 tpi on current models, is so that there is a good chance that the barrel/receiver threads will gaul if someone tries to remove them. Even if you know what your doing, there is a 50-50 chance the threads will gaul up. If you push things to hard, you will spoil the receiver unless you cut the barrel off and then bore out the barrel stub in the receiver and rethreads. Hell of a lot of work when there are a lot better choices out there.

We not see many of the current top rifle manufactures going to rifles that make it much more difficult to customize or rebuild such as the new polymer Remington or the Ruger American. I believe this is all in an attempt to make them tinker proof. Just another plus to going with a custom receiver from the start and leave that trouble behind for the most part!!!

Also consider that if you have to purchase say a Rem 700 for a precision rifle project. Once you buy the receiver and have it machined to have it fully ready to build a precision rifle on, you will have close to or over $1000 into the receiver and that's for a blued Rem 700. Stainless could add $200 to that cost.

Consider that the Defiance Rebel or Borden Timberline or Stiller Predator are all in the $1000 to $1100 range including rail base..... Money wiser spent in my opinion as all are stainless steel, all are much stronger and more rigid designs then even the Rem 700. Plus resell value of a full custom rifle is much better then a rebuilt factory rifle which retains much less resale value.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #26  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:44 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW Louisana
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Re: 7mm accuracy problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Old browning rifles are nice rifles, relatively recent Browning rifles leave ALOT to be designed. Most are decent for a general purpose hunting rifle but for any customizing, they are a very poor choice and they can be spoiled easily with cracked receivers or gauled barrels. One reason they use very fine receiver threads, I believe 32 tpi on current models, is so that there is a good chance that the barrel/receiver threads will gaul if someone tries to remove them. Even if you know what your doing, there is a 50-50 chance the threads will gaul up. If you push things to hard, you will spoil the receiver unless you cut the barrel off and then bore out the barrel stub in the receiver and rethreads. Hell of a lot of work when there are a lot better choices out there.

We not see many of the current top rifle manufactures going to rifles that make it much more difficult to customize or rebuild such as the new polymer Remington or the Ruger American. I believe this is all in an attempt to make them tinker proof. Just another plus to going with a custom receiver from the start and leave that trouble behind for the most part!!!

Also consider that if you have to purchase say a Rem 700 for a precision rifle project. Once you buy the receiver and have it machined to have it fully ready to build a precision rifle on, you will have close to or over $1000 into the receiver and that's for a blued Rem 700. Stainless could add $200 to that cost.

Consider that the Defiance Rebel or Borden Timberline or Stiller Predator are all in the $1000 to $1100 range including rail base..... Money wiser spent in my opinion as all are stainless steel, all are much stronger and more rigid designs then even the Rem 700. Plus resell value of a full custom rifle is much better then a rebuilt factory rifle which retains much less resale value.
Good point!!! Many Thanks!!!!!

DT
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  #27  
Old 09-07-2013, 03:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 16
Re: 7mm accuracy problems

Oops! I meant to type reloader 19! Thanks for catching that. I have rl 19, 4831sc, rl22 and 25, and 7828. Guess I just need to try a few and see what works. Do you guys using the bergers always start all the way at the bottom of their suggested loads and work up from there? Don't most of the slower powders tend to shoot more accurately as you utilize more of the case capacity? Lastly, I think I mentioned originally that I am trying to load the 168 gr berger classic hunter. They're not supposed to be as sensitive to seating depth. But would you guys suggest starting at the lands and working my way out until I see accuracy drop off?
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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Re: 7mm accuracy problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagedaddy View Post
Oops! I meant to type reloader 19! Thanks for catching that. I have rl 19, 4831sc, rl22 and 25, and 7828. Guess I just need to try a few and see what works. Do you guys using the bergers always start all the way at the bottom of their suggested loads and work up from there? Don't most of the slower powders tend to shoot more accurately as you utilize more of the case capacity? Lastly, I think I mentioned originally that I am trying to load the 168 gr berger classic hunter. They're not supposed to be as sensitive to seating depth. But would you guys suggest starting at the lands and working my way out until I see accuracy drop off?
All of those should work very well. When I was using load manual data, I always started about mid level and worked up. I have found that most factory load data is so under pressured that it means nothing in the real world. Their velocity data is good but the grains of powder to get there will be very different.

This is why a chronograph is so important to test your loads over so you know your velocity. Velocity is simply a function of pressure and time. The number of grains of powder to get that pressure will vary.

I am not saying to NOT follow manual load data. With a good experience level its a simple thing to develop your own loads but until you get that experience, confidence and are comfortable doing it, stick with the load data listed in manuals.

And as always, if you go beyond listed data, you have to accept responsibility on yourself for any possible issues that may come up by doing so. Your on your own if you go over listed data maxes so you better know what your doing and accept all responsibility as your own.
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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