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408CT based calibers

 
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  #1  
Old 01-27-2009, 02:44 PM
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408CT based calibers

Those that were playing around a couple of years ago with 338, 375 etc 408CT wildcats, how are they still running.
Whats the barrel life like and have the mfg finally got onto of a good projectile?
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2009, 06:18 PM
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Re: 408CT based calibers

The 338 based wildcats on the 408 case are main stream. To my knowledge, there are no less then five of them available to the public, 338 Chey Tac, 338 Extreme, 338 Sniper Tac, 338 Big Baer and my 338 Allen Magnum. I am sure there are others but these are the ones mentioned most here on LRH.

The 375 version also has several options, 375 Chey Tac, 375 Sniper Tac and my 375 Allen Magnum.

As far as the 408 caliber, there is basically two, the 408 Chey Tac and my 410 Allen Magnum.

My 338 AM is quickly becoming my most popular chamber request only surpassed by the 300 RUM and 338 Edge in popularity.

Barrel life is really hard to predict. Depends on so many variables its hard to say. In my testing, the 338 AM will get you around 600-900 rounds of accuracy life per barrel if its cared for. This all depends on how the rifle is used. The harder cut rifled barrels will tend to offer a bit more barrel life.

The 375 cal will be significantly more, I would say 1500 easily of the barrels are not abused.

408 versions should go well over 1800 rounds if cared for properly.

Projo wise, the 300 gr SMK is the go to bullet for the 338 versions. There are a couple more options coming on line from Hornady and Berger but they are not ready yet.

For the 375 cals, there is the 350 gr SMK available from CHey Tac.

EDM is offering some lead core match bullets in the 408 as well.

There are several solids being made and some custom bullets made in all calibers but they are not mainsteam yet.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2009, 07:38 PM
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Re: 408CT based calibers

You might find that the door is still open on the 375 in particular.

Several guys I know playing with it do not like the current 350 gr version as they say it needs to be at least 360-375 gr and much longer but it limited to only 350 due to manufacturing restrictions. Until a better bullet, it might be limited.

The 338 field is much more open and Berger is planning on 6 more 338 bullets this year and Hornady is supposed to there with one.

Take your pick of cartridges.

BH
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2009, 10:50 PM
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Re: 408CT based calibers

First time I saw the 350 gr. 375 cal SMK I was less then impressed. I though what a waste!!! Huge boattail, very little baring surface and really not much longer then a 300 gr SMK 338 cal bullet. I figured BC would be in the .6 range if it was lucky.

I think I even posted my feelings about them when I first saw them. I then contacted my contact at Chey Tac Industries and asked them what their tests were showing for a BC for the new bullet. They told me roughly 0.770 in their tests with their 375 Chey Tac launched at 3000 fps.

There was no way this bullet would make the same BC as Sierra listed for the 300 gr SMK 338 pill.

Loaded some up and worked up a load that averaged 3295 fps in my 338 AM. Just because thats what they said, I used a BC of .770 in my drop chart and headed out to test it. To my great surpise, it was dead on the money out to 1500 yards which is the max I tested it to. From 500 to 1500 yards it was dead on.

In my testing with my 338 AM, I find I have to use .800 for the 300 gr SMK to get drop to match up with the predicted computer numbers. So while its not the full equal to the 300 gr SMK in BC, its damn close and much better then I ever expected it would be.

I have pushed for a long time to get a 375 gr BTHP match bullet and recommended that to Chey Tac but they said Sierra would not order in the longer dies needed to make the longer bullet.

To be honest, I would be even happier with a 350 gr aluminum tipped bullet with a BC in the .9 range. Keep the speed, boost the BC, win-win, especially with the Sierra jacket that will take pretty much any velocity you can throw at it.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2009, 04:07 AM
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Re: 408CT based calibers

So to cut a long story short, forget anythign bigger that 338/408 as at the moment as the pills arn't up to scratch??

A few questions.. quite a few.

Is anyone seeing 300 SMKs to 3500fps reliably with ANY barrel life similar to that described by 50Driver?
50 - when you state 6-900 rounds of 'accuracy' what is the expected accuracy, and when it 'falls off' to what extent and how quickly?

Is it the 1st 3 inches of throat that is rooted, or is the whole barrel toast?

I;m looking at a receiver.. its single loader, no ejector, and weighs 58oz... would like something that is a bit lighter if possible and a repeater... aiming for a 11-14 lb rifle less scope etc if achievable.
Whats a nice cost effective option given the arse in our exchange rate?

All the different 338/408 wildcats, are there any 'actual' differences other than a couple of thou here and there in the reamer prints to make them 'different'?

Cheers!
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:04 PM
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Re: 408CT based calibers

Why are you giving up on the 375 cal. Not saying its better but the 350 gr SMK will do anything the 300 gr SMK will do in 338 and do so at same velocity with larger frontal area and higher kenetic energy payload.

Also an increase in recoil but there is always something that has to give.

The 375 will also have a much longer barrel life. Not as many bullet options but still a good one. Either will serve you well so do not run from the 375 just because there is only one bullet. If you do go that way, make sure you get a large enough supply that you need not worry about running out.

In my 40" Black Sunshine in 338 AM, I drove the 300 gr SMK to legit 3500 fps velocity. In fact they averaged 3510 fps. This was with the old TTI brass and it offered pretty good case life, 4-5 firings at this level. The new Jamison brass will not do this but it will do 3400 fps easy enough.

In my experience, accuracy generally stays at or very close to the 1/2 moa range but once the barrel goes, it goes quickly. In fact dramatically noticable in the three barrels I have burnt out.

My rule of thumb when setting a barrel back is that you cut off the entire chamber including throat and then rechamber. In the case of the 338 AM, you will clean up roughly 4" of barrel length which mostly will clean up the severe heat cracking but you will still have some.

I have also noticed that if a virgin barrel will get you say 800 rounds of accuracy life, when you set the barrel back and rechamber, you will get around 50% of that original barrel life so expect another 400 rounds before things really start to fall off. Is it worth it, your call. The damage is down the entire bore, or should I say wear. This is why the next round will not have as long of an accuracy life as the original chambering.

You may possibly get into the 14 lb range with a repeater but it will not be easy. You will need a carbon fiber stock, slim barrel contour, likely no longer then 30-32" and you will still be pushing things pretty hard.

Its MUCH easier to get there with a single shot. My BAT based Xtreme Heavy Sporters can start at around 16 lbs ready to hunt with including a NF NXS 5.5-22x 50mm scope and harris 9-13 bipod. Its hard to get much lighter then this and retain long range consistancy. These rifles really put a strain on a rifle system. They need the receiver, stock and barrel integrity to handle it and remain consistant.

The Chey Tac rounds are the smallest capacity of the group and Chey Tac loads them pretty mild.

The Sniper Tac, Extreme and Big Baer are all very similiar in performance and roughly 100 fps step over the standard Chey Tac. They are also very easy to work with as there is no extreme case forming, just load and shoot.

My 338 AM is the largest capacity of the group. Shoulder location is moved forward to stretch the body section and increase case capacity. This can do a couple things for you, give you around 75-100 fps more velocity on the top end with same bullet and barrel length, or match the slightly smaller 408 based chamberings with a bit less pressure which will offer longer barrel life to some degree.

From the low end to the top end, there is only 200 fps difference between them all and from what I have seen, all are extremely accurate at nearly any range your bullet remains super sonic so you could really not go wrong with any of them.
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #7  
Old 01-28-2009, 02:40 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Posts: 50
Re: 408CT based calibers

Thanks 50.

I have looked for the 375cal SMK, but don't see it listed @ Sierra, hence why I discounted it.

Do you have reamers for sale for the 338AM?

The receiver I'm looking at is 3.5lbs- single shot.. going to have a to look around for something a little lighter I hope
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