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400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

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Old 04-30-2004, 09:30 AM
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Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

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Old 04-30-2004, 10:49 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

There's a thread over at AR on this. The Guide did instruct the client, he didn't completely listen though. He took the client back to the boat then went to finish the BB himself.

The calm he felt - T'was "shock". Been in shock three different times myself. It's like a drug I guess, the intense trauma would probably kill you but you feel like nothing is wrong, too calm really, which is the dangerous part if you believe it.

The importance on practice for something like this is impressed on me more every year. I most definitely have not practiced off hand fast shooting at small moving targets to even know how I'd fair. In all truth, I doubt I'm half as prepared as I should be. I think some milk jugs placed progressively closer and some fast shooting will be fun practice, well needed too.
Brent Moffitt
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Old 04-30-2004, 12:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stamford NY
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Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?


The best way I can think to pratice this would be with a shot gun on a sporting clays course, its amazing how much shooting 50-100 clay birds a week will improve reflexes.
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Old 04-30-2004, 01:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
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Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

I've done a little of that lately, and it does keep one on the ball. Good point!
Brent Moffitt
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:10 PM
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Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

The most important first step in using a BGR is to ensure it fits correctly and is comfortable under recoil.
Heavy recoiling rifles also require a much [more than normal] more aggresive grip by both hands and body weight over front foot.
That is a forward "lean" in order to maintain control over fast repeat shots otherwise we are thrown off balance onto the back foot with rifle elevating to the sky.
Practicing sportings clays is excellent as this encourages the natural traverse with the body rather than using the arms to track left or right. It will also help with the balance referred to above.
Apart from actual practice as on the jugs Brent mentioned [excellent as there is instant visual gratification] dry fire will help enormously.A tip for dry fire - practice every movement slowly! This will increase your speed when it is really needed. You will programme your subconsious to perform best if you have practiced smooth economical movement slowly and perfectly - e.g. gun mount[critical to a fast accurate shot] and tracking multipule targets.
I have had some experience on these matters as I have owned and shot 375 H&H; 416 Rigby; 500/465 H&H; 500 Jefferys here in Australia along with 6 trips to Africa.
For many years I was IPSC Mastergrade as well which taught me a great deal about speed and controllability. MY .02. APB.
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Old 05-01-2004, 01:21 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 27
Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

Dear John & Harv,
A 30-06 is enough gun to kill even a large Grizz, but there's a BIG difference between a killing caliber and a STOPPING GUN CALIBER.

To stop a charge from Dangerous Game at close range, you must be able to hammer the beast into the ground. FEW rifles and slugs are capable of doing this. For many years, BORE RIFLES in 10bore were the GUN of choice. They could throw a huge 2oz hardened ball or a 3oz conical bullet into a dangerous animal at close range and knock them down. High speed bullets just can't do this alone - there's gotta' be bore or diameter, mass and momentum at work here. It's one of the reasons James Gates and the team over at Dixie Slugs came out with the Terminator Slug - it's a huge 745gr hard cast (bullet alloy) monster with enough velocity and momentum to rake a big animal from end to end at close range. The power and recoil is just on the borderline of what most shooters can control and manage good followup shots. There's more updated information on the website at Dixie Slugs. Hunters and people in the Outdoors can use a fairly low cost, strong shotgun action to shoot these loads and expect a lot of protection from dangerous game animals at close range. EXPANSION? The Dixie Terminator has not been tested on any animals large enough to evaluate expansion, but in WET SAND, it's over an inch - figure 26mm - OVER AN INCH! 1 OUNCES!! At point blank range, what's your calculation of knockout - knockdown power of this slug?


Just my opinion, but a strong, quick 12ga shotgun with these slugs might have given a different outcome...

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Old 05-02-2004, 12:36 PM
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Re: 400gr X 416 Remington Mag NOT Enough For GRIZZ?

Gowge, I fully understand stopping power vs killing power. What I'm syaing is that you are looking at data from over 100 years ago.

Bullets today are substantially better.

A 416 Weatherby with a 400 grain X-bullet that retains all its weight is plenty of stopping power for a grizz. Over 6400 ft/lbs or energy? It retains almost all its weight?


Have you ever hunted with a barnes bullet?

In both the stories you mentioned, problems were encountered by mistakes not being undergunned.

Should we all use rifles so powerful that problems are caused BY excessive recoil?

[ 05-02-2004: Message edited by: John M. ]
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