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.300 Win Mag

 
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  #1  
Old 07-15-2003, 02:02 PM
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Location: Hermiston, Oregon
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.300 Win Mag

Alright guys, I know I posted earlier about either a .300 or .338 Ultra and settled on the .300 Ultra with all you guys advice. Now I am kinda rethinking everything and thinking that is to much gun for the distances I can shoot. I am only able to shoot accurately out to 600 yards. I am thinking a .300 Win Mag. with either 180g or 200g bullets should be able to get me out to 600 yards with good killing power for elk and bears. But I still want to know that they are being hit with a lot of energy and know they are going to go down within 100 yards, preferably no more than a couple steps. Also, Norma makes .300 Win brass. While only Remington makes the Ultra brass and I have heard that Rem brass is kinda ****** for LR. I have also read by a lot of other people that the big ultra mags have real bad tendancy to string that far because its hard to get a low deviation velocity over the chronograph. Large amounts of real slow burning powder I heard is not the best. Thats another reason I was thinking about sticking with the .300 Win. I have worked up loads for them and only had 15fps difference. I would rather hit the animal with somethign accurate and powerful instead of hitting it with something more powerful in a bad spot, it will do no good for me or the animal. How far do you think a .300 Win is capable of taking elk and bears and with what bullets and muzzle velocity? Also what is your guys theory on impact velocity for expansion, and impact for energy? I read for deer and elk you need 2,000fps and deer you need 1,000 lbs of strikign energy, and for elk and bears you need 1,500 lbs. What do you experienced LR hunters think of those numbers? Are they reasonable? Sorry for so many questions, but I dont want to be overgunned and develop a flinch when I can buy a good old .300 Win and be completely satisfied for my capability's. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 07-15-2003, 04:37 PM
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Re: .300 Win Mag

I know for a fact that a 300 Win Mag initially pushing a 180 Nosler Balistic Tips at 3150 fps will kill an elk at 905 yards (this was at very near 13,000 ft ASL though and that would leave about 2000 fps and 1200 ft/lbs). I recovered one Ballistic Tip that had stopped just under the skin on the off side of the chest...nicely mushroomed. (There were another in the beast but I didn't root around for it...entered the chest on a quartering-to shot and lodged in the critter somewhere.)

You can buy factory Federal Gold Medal Match 190's for the 300 Win mag and be quite sure they'll kill deer. Why reload when factory match is available?
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  #3  
Old 07-15-2003, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sheridan, Or
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Re: .300 Win Mag

I echo Dave, I have used a 180 NosBT in my 77 ruger with IMR4831 with great results on whitetail,muley's, blacktail,black bear and of course because I hunt the wet side of the sisters I have had great results on Rosevelts out to 600 with a few kicks but no steps, I wish it was as easy to find them as it is to kill them (not really, thats the fun). Im getting ready to start building a long barrel 300 win mag for the clearcuts.
Tom

Semper-Fi
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  #4  
Old 07-16-2003, 03:48 AM
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Re: .300 Win Mag

Alright guys, thanks for your advice and input. I have narrowed my 3 choices of bullets down. 180g B-tip, 200g SMK, and 220g SMK. I could type all the ballistics from 300-800 yards. But I have looked at the 3 of them for a long while now and probly think the 200g SMK is the best bet. However, somebody please smack me in the face for thinking about this one. How about a 7 STW or 7 ultra with a 180g Berger VLD with a BC of .698? It blows all 3 of them wegihts out of the .300 Win mag out of the water at every distance. Only thing is, im not really a .284 fan and I read where for bears and elk long range, you need at least .30 cal. But the 7 STW is showing about 200 lbs more energy at every distance, and velocity is about 200-250fps faster at every distance, its trajectory is less at every range, its drift is less with a 15mph crosswind. I guess its all part of buying a LR gun. I was looking for something better than a .300 Win with no more kick involved but trying to not go over .30 cal. What do you guys think would be a better choice in the field? I know ballistics dont exactly represent everything in the field, but the numbers for the 7 STW or Ultra with the 180 VLD Berger beat anything the .300 Win can dish out. By the way, the .300 Win I am currently looking at is the Sendero with a 26" and even with the little added velocity, the nubmers still are lower then the 7 STW or Ultra. THe only problem I see with going with the .284 bore is that I can find little bullets with high BC's that will push them fast enough to keep up with the .300 Win. The only bullet I found was the 180g VLD for the .284" that would beat it. I have a lot of good choices in .30 cal. I want to stay with a factory rifle and not go over .30 cal also. Decisions, decisions. Tell me what you guys think, it will be more than helpful.

Another thing, which is usually more inherently accurate or I can suspect to be more accurate at 500-800 yards?
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  #5  
Old 07-16-2003, 03:58 AM
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Re: .300 Win Mag

A couple things I forgot to mention. I didn't prrof read so please forgive me. I have a friend that has a 7 STW and shoots the 175g partition. With a full max load of H-1000 he is only getting 2850fps. His gun is a win model 70. That load should be pushing close to 3100fps. Also have another friend with a 7mm Rem mag and shoots 140's at 3000fps with a max load. From what I have seen with my 2 friends .284" bores is that they are getting 200fps shy of what the book is saying. Now that doesn't interest me one bit. Pretty much all you will have is a glorified heavy 30-06 with a 175 at 2850fps.

Now to the .300. I have had a .300 Win in teh past for 2 years that I shot 2 elk at. The longer one was a spike bull at 525 yards. This was about 2 years ago and I did not know half the stuff I do now about ballistics and LR shoooting/hunting. I used a 180g partitions at 3025fps to take both elk with 1 shot each and both dropped dead before they hit the ground. Both were spike bulls and both were hit directly in the shoulder. Both 180g partitions exited. Plus I have loading experience still with the .300 because I load for my dads and my uncles exclusively and I stuck with the 165g Barnes XLC in them. THey shoot great, 1/2-3/4 at 100 yards and 3350fps. Also got the deviation down to 15fps.

I am kinda in a moot point as to which to get. As of right now I am leaning towards the trusty .300 from my past experience, and from seeing what its done for my dad and uncle. And I know I can get the full velocity with a .300 Win. I also kinda want to try the STW or 7 Ultra with the 180g VLD becasue the ballistics are better for LR. Somebody lead me in the right direction here or I'll go crazy trying to decide which to get. Whatever I get, I will be getting them in a Remington sendero. Thanks
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2003, 05:45 AM
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Location: Fredericksburg VA
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Re: .300 Win Mag

You are right about the 7mm 180, but you might have forgot to figure in a custom barrel with 1-9 twist is required to shoot the 180s. That kind of limits you on lower weight bullets and puts you in the custom route if you are trying to stay factory.

Standard 300 win mag Sendaro will do everything you want and then some. Little work, bedding, crown, truing, trigger ($250-300) and you are set.

BH
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  #7  
Old 07-16-2003, 09:45 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 61
Re: .300 Win Mag

Remington_25-06

It's good to see you here. I always enjoyed your posts over on shooters.com regarding LR hunting and see that you found it here like I did since the people here are also interested in LR hunting and won't slam you for aspiring for long shots. I used to go under the name bblaine2k there so you may recognize it.

Anyhow, to answer your questions. I am facing LR weaponry dilemmas much like yourself since I'm also relatively new to the sport. I'll share what I've been able to sift through.

First, in regards to how much energy and velocity is needed on animals, I've found the Optimum Game Weight Formula to be about the best approximation for determining whether or not a given caliber/bullet/velocity combination will work for a given game animal. For years, I used to go by the 1000 ft-lbs for deer rule but feel that this OGW formula is a better approximation and believe me that is all it is - an approximation. There's never any absolute certainties because of the wide range of variables involved many of which we probably don't even know about. So don't worry too much about it. The OGW is calculated as follows:

Velocity X Velocity X Velocity X Bullet Wt. X Bullet Wt. X 0.0000000000015 = OGW

A better way is to simply plug the numbers into the calculator at the following website:
http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx

Any of your mentioned choices 300 Win Mag, 300 Ultra Mag, 7mm STW, 7mm RUM should work fine on the animals you mentioned out to 600 yards.

As for accuracy between your choices, I can say this. I've handloaded 7mm STW to shoot 3/8 groups at 100 yards under less than perfect circumstances. The 7mm STW I was shooting was a rechambered Model 70 Win. that used to be a 7mm Rem Mag with a 22 inch barrel. Regardless, it still shot very well with CT 140 grn ballistic silvertips and 72 Grns of RL 19. The 300 Win Mag is another good choice and I've taken whitetails up to 525 yards with it - my longest shot in a Ruger 77 laid in a B & C composite stock. Never reloaded for it though but it still shot 1 inch or less at 100 yards. Also found great accuracy with 300 Weatherby Mags in a Ruger No. 1 that shot 5/8 inch groups at 100 yards - a rifle not reputed to be an ideal LR rig. The point is that most rigs can be tweaked with reloading and some good gunsmithing to increase accuracy as you already know.

For me, I've since bought a 7mm RUM in a Remington Sendero for my LR rig. It's about as close to a custom rig as I can afford. It has a long barrel - 26 inches, something many LR shooters have recommended to me. In fact some of the custom 7mm STW's sport up to 30 inch barrels! I chose it because even though the 7mm STW shot great for me, the 7mm RUM is supposed to be more accurate because it headspaces on the shoulder and not the belt like the 7mm STW, 300 Win and Weatherby Mags, and all other belted magnums.

Finding feedback on the RUM's has been difficult - most likely because it is a new caliber and not as many people shooting it like the 300 Win Mags and others. So even though it may, in reality, be much more accurate than the 300's, there's not been enough time for feedback. People have been shooting the 300 Win. Mag for decades so there's plenty of people to testify in favor of it.

Ballistically, the 7mm RUM is supposed to be one of the flattest, if not THE flattest, factory cartridge produced depending on who you ask! That was my main reason for going with it. Those against my choice warned me of the heavy recoil, and too much powder to marginally outperform the 7mm STW. Brass, as you already know, is only produced by Remington currently and it isn't cheap. 100 new cases run about $50.00. I haven't tweaked it any, haven't even shot it, since I'm still shopping for a scope, bi-pod, etc. If you're interested, I could let you know how it goes in a couple months to tell you my experience with it.

Don't rush into any gun purchase as I used to do. Keep researching like you have and make the best choice you can. I don't think you could go wrong with a 7mm RUM in a Sendero - I don't think I have!

Best wishes!
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