Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > Long Range Hunting & Shooting

Long Range Hunting & Shooting Nightforce Optics


Reply

300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #22  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:41 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

Thanks for the info, Mr. Bobbit, I've read many of your postings over the years.

I bought one earlier this year, 1960 mfg Win 70, and can't wait to dial in a good load.

Has anyone tried any of the ultra slow burning powders in this caliber?

What is the best option for a neck die since no one seems to make one?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Halfway between Lubbock and Dallas
Posts: 4,760
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipM View Post
Thanks for the info, Mr. Bobbit, I've read many of your postings over the years.

I bought one earlier this year, 1960 mfg Win 70, and can't wait to dial in a good load.

Has anyone tried any of the ultra slow burning powders in this caliber?

What is the best option for a neck die since no one seems to make one?
Call PT&G.

http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com

I'll almost gurantee you they can make you a neck sizing die at a reasonable price.
__________________
Without the First and Second Amendments the rest of The Constitution is Meaningless.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-03-2012, 07:06 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,114
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipM View Post
Has anyone tried any of the ultra slow burning powders in this caliber?

What is the best option for a neck die since no one seems to make one?
When the .300 H&H was used in competition at long ranges, folks getting best accuracy used IMR4350 in their reloads. Some tried 4831 when it became available but it didn't do quite as well. As chronographs were's typically available to consumers back then, actual muzzle velocities were pretty much a guess. They could be roughly compared by the difference in sight settings from close to long range between different powders used for the same bullet.

They also full length sized their fired cases. Else just used brand new ones like the military teams did. Neck sizing's never done all that well in the accuracy department for such cases. Which may be why only full length sizing dies were made. When the .300 H&H was replaced in competition by the .30-.338 and .308 Norma, full length sizing or new cases were still the favorite by match winners. Even the benchresters using smaller cases started switching over to full length sizing fired cases some years ago.

RCBS or Redding could probably make a neck only sizing die for you; contact them and find out.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-04-2012, 08:19 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
When the .300 H&H was used in competition at long ranges, folks getting best accuracy used IMR4350 in their reloads. Some tried 4831 when it became available but it didn't do quite as well. As chronographs were's typically available to consumers back then, actual muzzle velocities were pretty much a guess. They could be roughly compared by the difference in sight settings from close to long range between different powders used for the same bullet.

They also full length sized their fired cases. Else just used brand new ones like the military teams did. Neck sizing's never done all that well in the accuracy department for such cases. Which may be why only full length sizing dies were made. When the .300 H&H was replaced in competition by the .30-.338 and .308 Norma, full length sizing or new cases were still the favorite by match winners. Even the benchresters using smaller cases started switching over to full length sizing fired cases some years ago.

RCBS or Redding could probably make a neck only sizing die for you; contact them and find out.
Why did full length sizing work better? RCBS does make a neck die but it's $60!!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-04-2012, 09:07 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,114
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipM View Post
Why did full length sizing work better? RCBS does make a neck die but it's $60!!
There's not much details between a proper full length size belted case and neck only sized one except the body diameter's are a bit smaller. That ensures the normal out of round that both chambers and cases have won't cause interference between the case and chamber when the case has a tight fit. Plus, virtually all belted cases get a tiny ridge right in front of the belt when they're first fired. If that's not sized back down to the same diameter as the rest of the body at that point, it'll interfere with the headspace shoulder at the back of the chamber. Such interference doesn't let the back end of the case be at the same place across all rounds fired. Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment now has a collet die to size that ridge back down and should be used after normall full length sizing die's have reduced body diameters back to about new case dimensions.

Sierra Bullets' has been full length sizing all their belted cases testing bullets for accuracy since the 1950's. Martin Hull, their first ballistic tech, tried every sizing method known to man testing their most accurate bullets to see what reloading process produced the best results. He was also one of the top long range competitors in his day. They still do that today with SAAMI spec (or virtual versions thereof) chambers using a .300 Win. Mag. test barrel checking 30 caliber bullets 190 grains and heavier for accuracy. They use Redding full bushing dies for cases those dies are made for, regular Redding full length sizing dies for all the rest. Their best heavy 30 caliber match bullets shoot under 3/8 MOA at 200 yards from fired cases so sized.

Martin Hull had a saying about how a bottleneck case should fit the chamber that's oft times been quoted by many top rifle competitors over the years. It goes something like: "The case should fit the chamber like a terd in a punch bowl." In other words, a lot of room around it. A tight or close fit of a bottleneck case to the chamber's not good for best accuracy. If one understands the details of how a bottleneck case centers in the front of the chamber when its fired, they'll probably understand why some clearance around the case body's better than only a tiny bit or none at all.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyfox View Post
I have a mint Model 70 in 300H&H that I have had a long time, 50's vintage. I have shot it but between the original steel butt plate which is a killer and the collector value, I retired the rifle. Factory ammo isn't much better if at all to the hot 30-06 loads. With hand loads you can get similar velocities to the 300 Win Mag. Because of the long taper, case sizing to within .001-.002 of the rifle's headspace is important to get the accuracy out of it. I had no problem getting .5MOA with careful attention to my loads, as good as my 300WM. I think the primary reason it fell from favor is that when the 300 Win mag came out, it could be built with standard length actions. Also, the factory ammo was toned down because of the large number of older rifles in circulation.
No argument with your love for the original "Super .30" here! However, what led to the widespread popularity of the .300 H&H in the U.S. was the release of Holland & Holland's proprietary hold on the cartridge in the 1930s and Winchester's offering of the Model 70 in .300 H&H shortly thereafter. Similarly, what led to the demise of its popularity was the release of the .300 Winchester Magnum in 1963, at which point Winchester stopped chambering the Model 70 - probably the most popular bolt action in the world, for the .300 H&H.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-03-2013, 11:41 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,406
Re: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?

The popularity of the H&H is due in part to the quality of these old Winchesters. I've not seen one of these old Model 70's not shoot. When teamed with modern optics, and bullets (unless abused or shot out), they are still competitive.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: 300 Holland & Holland ...anybody played with this one ?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Holland vs APS alloutsmith3 The Basics, Starting Out 9 12-13-2010 10:13 PM
Holland vs APS alloutsmith3 Rifles, Bullets, Barrels and Ballistics 5 12-03-2010 10:28 PM
holland actions mrbb Equipment Discussions 1 03-01-2010 12:33 AM
Holland Brake-Is This Right? Backcountrypro Long Range Hunting & Shooting 26 05-11-2009 11:28 AM
Holland ART dpr Optics For Sale 1 03-03-2009 09:54 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC