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100yd or 200yd zero?

 
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2013, 10:03 PM
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5280yotes View Post
I just got my new 5R milspec in 308 back from having the scope installed and I'm heading out to shoot today. Should I zero at 100 or 200 yards? Thanks in advance.
I find it interesting that you hand load but don't mount your own optics. I never allow anyone to mount anything on anything except me.

You have an issue with the mount. Could be improperly torqued mounting screws (base to receiver), cocked rings (rings to base), rings not concentric (did the installer lap the rings?), or if it's a Viper, the zero stop shims are installed. They should never be installed until after the rifle is zero'd at your required distance and then and only then, is the elevation adjustment turret removed and shimmed to '0'.

(If the rings weren't concentric and the scope was installed and the ring screws tightened, the rings could have deformed the tube) (that would explain the windage issue and if the tube is deformed), you have no recourse, Vortex, nor any manufacturer for that matter, will warrant any scope with a damaged tube, period.

I do my own mounts and mounts for others but I treat everyone like it was my own.
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  #16  
Old 03-31-2013, 10:25 PM
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

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Originally Posted by MMERSS View Post
I had a similar problem. Easily a 5 shot 1/2 MOA group on a new gun but ran out of windage on a 30mm tube. ? What the heck. I put the gun in a vise, removed the bolt, adjusted the vise to where the crosshair was centered on the shot group. Made sure I didn't bump the vise and stood about a foot behing the butt and looked down the barrel. ? again what the heck. The end of the muzzle wasn't even pointing on the target, anywhere. This was at 100 yards with a 20" square target. Turned out the barrel was warped the last few inches, severe enough for a 24 MOA difference. Try this method. If you have a straight barrel when you look down the muzzle with the scope centered on your shot group it should be alligned a few inches above your group. You may have a warped barrel if not. In my case the manufacture replaced the barrel at no cost.
Would the rifle group good with a warped barrel?
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  #17  
Old 03-31-2013, 10:56 PM
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
I find it interesting that you hand load but don't mount your own optics. I never allow anyone to mount anything on anything except me.

You have an issue with the mount. Could be improperly torqued mounting screws (base to receiver), cocked rings (rings to base), rings not concentric (did the installer lap the rings?), or if it's a Viper, the zero stop shims are installed. They should never be installed until after the rifle is zero'd at your required distance and then and only then, is the elevation adjustment turret removed and shimmed to '0'.

(If the rings weren't concentric and the scope was installed and the ring screws tightened, the rings could have deformed the tube) (that would explain the windage issue and if the tube is deformed), you have no recourse, Vortex, nor any manufacturer for that matter, will warrant any scope with a damaged tube, period.

I do my own mounts and mounts for others but I treat everyone like it was my own.
Yeah well.. I had family in town and didnt have a lot of free time. Looks like I learned my lesson. This was a gunsmith at gander mountain.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

Like Flip said.....This is why I have been mounting my own scopes since I was 16. I have a CTK Precision P3 Ultimate gun vise. It's been great so far for me for cleaning rifles, and mounting optics. It has been well-worth the money.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:55 AM
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

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Originally Posted by 5280yotes View Post
Yeah well.. I had family in town and didnt have a lot of free time. Looks like I learned my lesson. This was a gunsmith at gander mountain.
Yeah? A gunsmith at Gander Mountain is like a Pizza Delivery man. Get my point??

Sort of like Cabelas... "We'll mount and boresight your scope for free" They take it in the backroom and screw it on and line the laser boresighter up on the wall. 5 minutes, tops. Never check anything, never properly torque mounts....nothing. They don't even know what threadlocker is and don't have a torque indicating attachment wrench.

You have no idea how many rifles I've found with loose rail to receiver screws, lets just say almost every one......

Just plain stoopid IMO.

Candidly, years and years ago, the first rifle I bought, a Ruger 10-22, I bought at Cabelas when they first opened the store here. It wouldn't shoot for beans and I had 'them' mount a gold ring 3x9. So I go buy the necessary tools and remove the scope (in Leupold Rimgs btw) and the rail is loose as in the mount screws each turned 1/4 turn to torque. No wonder it shot for shitte. The rail was wiggling around.

Thas not to say that it's always the mount, I've seen and experienced receiver to rail threaded mounting holes that were not drilled parallel to the centerline of the receiver, that rifle went back and was replaced by the manufacturer, so it happens.

What I'm saying is when the pizza delivery man mounts the scope, thats all he does, nothing more because he lacks the skill to do better.

You can take my comments any way you want. It's your issue, not mine. Next time, give the "gunsmith" a ball pein hammer and let him align the optic with that or take it to a real gunsmith and pay to have it done correctly. Better yet, obtain the knowledge and do it yourself and do it right.

People dance around the obvious without ever looking at what the actual cause is. 'Warped barrel'.... maybe, if you didn't follow the proper break in and pounded multiple shots through it and got it overheated, can happen. Again, entirely your fault.

Go back to square one and check the mount, the mount screws, make sure the rings have a concentric bore and lap if necessary (I lap every new set, it's not hard to do, takes 5 minutes and you can buy the lap bars and compound online, I just happen to own a machine shop so I make my own), use threadlocker and torque properly and in a patteren, usually diagonally. that is, if the tube isn't dented already......

My other issue concerning the pizza delivery man boresight bs is eye releif. How can a stranger set your eye box at maximum magnification? No 2 shooters shoulder a rifle the same. Length of pull varies between individuals, like fingerprints, there is no 'usual'.

Finally, were the scope cross hairs the horizontal hair, cenetered and levelled on the receiver? Bet not and that alone will cause a deviation that increases as the shot distance increases because the scope is 'canted' in the mount. Short shots, no issue, long shots, big issue, one reason I have a scope level on every longer range rifle I own, just to be sure I'm shouldering the rifle in the same plane as the cross hairs are in.

I would never intrust mounting of an expensive optic to a pizza delivery man, part time gunsmith.

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  #20  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:59 AM
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

I agree with sidecarflip. It is unlikely that anything is off with the rifle, very likely that the scope was improperly mounted. I own four Reminton 5R Milspecs, 3 308's, and one 300WM, the most recent acquired a couple of months ago. Interesting thing about them is that the are all within a few MOA when Mark 4, 0 degree bases, and Mark 4 medium rings were mounted with a centered reticle Mark 4, or Nightforce scope. If .020" bases are used, approximately one turret revolution will put you on zero for 100-200 yards. All my Milpec 308's are dimensionally the same, including chamber dimensions, even though they were bought years apart. They appear to be assembled similarly to the military contract rifles, not the regular production line at Remington. I'm not implying that you have to use Mark 4 bases, or a particular scope, but I do think that mount/ring set up on your rifle is not compatible, or improperly mounted on your rifle. The group size you show is consistent for this rifle with the load you are using. Once you get the scope set up properly you will have one helluva good rifle!
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  #21  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:54 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: 100yd or 200yd zero?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5280yotes View Post
Would the rifle group good with a warped barrel?
Take the good advise posted by the previous members first. You more than likely have a mount problem. I posted the warped barrel issue in the event you do not have a mount issue. Check for the possibility of a warped barrel if you continue to have the same problem with a properly remounted scope. I would say a warp like in my case is extremely rare and will blow your mind if you ever experience one. Just something else to consider if mounting is not the issue. Good luck and hope you resolve the problem.
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