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Why 7STW over 300WM?

 
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  #1  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:04 AM
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Why 7STW over 300WM?

I'm having a rifle built this fall and have really been torn between the 7stw and the 300 wm. ballistically, it seems like you can make them almost identical - but there are clearly a lot more ammo choices for the 300wm. I will be using the rifle for 30% hunting (elk,deer,wolf) and 70% long range target. Give me your reasons why the 7stw would be your clear choice - given my purposes. Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:14 PM
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Re: Why 7STW over 300WM?

7mm bullets have better ballistic coefficients than .308 caliber bullets. The STW is a hotrod and can really stretch her legs and show what she can do at extreme distances. Everyone and their brother has a .300 WinMag.....Not many folks have STW's comparatively. And last, but not least, you should buy an STW because we have our own section on the forum. LOL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
The 284 is to the STW what a tricycle is to a Ninja.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:25 PM
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Re: Why 7STW over 300WM?

Here is why I shoot a 300 win even though I have built several good 7mm's. The current selection of 300 bullets will better retained velocity at distance, and have BC's at or above the most popular 7mm hunting bullets. You named target shooting, the 300 win barrel will still be shooting accurately after the throat starts to go in the 7. Plus you will always spot hits on rocks and steel better with larger bullets. You can get brass almost anywhere as well as ammo for the 300 win. 7STW, not so much. You mentioned Elk, I will always opt for a heavier higher BC bullet for elk and why I shoot a 300 win even after extensive testing with the 7-300 which is very close to a 7 STW. I like a good 7mm, and I like the STW but there is a reason the 7's have never taken over the 300's. They are close in many situations, but when I weigh the results and add in distance the 300 win is still my choice.

Jeff
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: Why 7STW over 300WM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Here is why I shoot a 300 win even though I have built several good 7mm's. The current selection of 300 bullets will better retained velocity at distance, and have BC's at or above the most popular 7mm hunting bullets. You named target shooting, the 300 win barrel will still be shooting accurately after the throat starts to go in the 7. Plus you will always spot hits on rocks and steel better with larger bullets. You can get brass almost anywhere as well as ammo for the 300 win. 7STW, not so much. You mentioned Elk, I will always opt for a heavier higher BC bullet for elk and why I shoot a 300 win even after extensive testing with the 7-300 which is very close to a 7 STW. I like a good 7mm, and I like the STW but there is a reason the 7's have never taken over the 300's. They are close in many situations, but when I weigh the results and add in distance the 300 win is still my choice.

Jeff
If you run the long range ballistics between a 300WM and 7STW the STW passes and walks away from the WM at about 800 yards. I think you might want to restate your quote on BCs on 30 Cal over 7mm(284), when comparing apples to apples (bullet weight to bullet weight) the 7mm is quite ahead of the 30 cal, it's not until you get over the 200gr mark on the 30 cal that the BC's really get impressive, and in a 300WM, those heavy bullets aren't moving that fast (in comparison to the 7mm STW) which directly translates to bullet drop and wind drift.

Seeing how hunting is a main concern, the time of flight is another big benefit the STW has over the 300WM, now this doesn't make a big difference until you're past the 700yd range or so. Example, 168gr 300WM SMK leaving the tube at 3150 has a flight time in the 2.2sec range at 1000 yds, a 168 7mm leaving an STW at 3350 (what mine does) hits at 1.4 sec, that almost a full sec ahead of the WM, and we all know how much an animal can do in a 1 sec.

The STW has limitations, it's meant as a speed freak, which means you need to choose your engagement correctly, for the most part, IMO, anything closer than 300-400yds is too close for most bullets moving at those speeds to preform ideally, it needs some space to slow it down some. Some will argue that WM causes more impact energy, and in some cases it does, but the basic physics of mass x velocity = energy will tell you that a bigger bullet moving slower is the same a smaller bullet moving faster.

The 7mm also fights the wind better in the STW for two reasons, 1) smaller cross section. The smaller cross section means there's less surface area for the wind to push against the bullet. 2) Speed, the bullet is exposed to the wind a less amount of time over a given distance moving as fast as the STW is capable of moving it.

The major downfall of the STW is the lack of factory loading, there's plenty out there, but the likelihood of finding it at WalMart in multiple loadings probably isn't going to happen. MOST, not all, STW shooters are reloaders and factory loadings aren't a huge concern to us who reload. But keep up your research on what you want, ultimately it's your weapon system, not mine. There's plenty of information out there and play around with the different ballistic programs and do some comparisons from different loads and shot scenarios you foresee yourself getting into and see which ones meet your requirements and make your choice from there.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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Re: Why 7STW over 300WM?

I will address what I posted earlier and explain what I was referring to. 1st, I don't load little fast bullets. They slow faster and since hunting is what I seek, I will hit the game as hard as I can. Thus I was referring to loading large for caliber offerings. I live in elk country and hunt elk a lot.

Here is some real world data for both rifles I have worked with extensively.

7-300 with 180 Berger @ 3000 fps

300 win, 215 Berger Hybrid @ 3015 fps.

Both loaded close to max, both large for caliber offering, both close to 3000 fps.

1000 yard shot, 10 mph 3 O clock spin drift accounted for.

Impact velocity........... 1874
energy........................ 1403
drift............................ 4.5 MOA
time of flight............... 1.27 sec.

Same shot with 300 win.

Impact Velocity............ 1927
energy......................... 1773
drift ............................ 3.8 MOA
time of flight ............... 1.24 sec.

This is what I was talking about. I have shot them side by side. Both are great rifles. But for my type of shooting and elk hunting anything the 7 does the 300 will do and even a little better for my usage.

I am not going to get in a who's is bigger discussion with a 7 mm lover. I like them too. But I know why I still shoot a 300 win and have proven it to myself in the field.

When the 7mm 195 Berger is released I will be out testing them too. I have said before that could be a game changer, but not until I prove it in the field.

Jeff
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:26 PM
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Re: Why 7STW over 300WM?

Thats the information I was poking you for. In your loading and setup, that explains it well and it proves the 300WM is better for your setup.

The point I was making is the apple to apple comparison, 168 vs 168 or any other cross over bullet weight, the 7mm has the better BC.

The speeds you have listed for the 7-300 is quite a bit slower than what I have produced with some of the STW's I've built, maybe the increase of speed will match the performance back up with your 300WM. In the scenarios that you have laid out I would probably reach in my safe and bring out my 338WM over the others, but that a whole another ball of wax.

Thanks for putting up the information so everyone can see more of the debate with real world information.
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2013, 12:37 PM
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Re: Why 7STW over 300WM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFR292 View Post

Thanks for putting up the information so everyone can see more of the debate with real world information.
You are welcome. The speeds I got from the 7-300 are just below max. My first chrono (chrony) had them 100 fps. faster. But what I posted above was from my new Oehler 35 and confirmed drops to 1 mile on paper from both rifles.

The last 7 STW I owned was not as accurate at max charge weight with 180's. But you could probably get another 100 fps. The barrel life there was not desirable for me. This is part of what led me to the 7-300 win. With both the STW and 7-300 in a nine twist I found the STW to prefer 168 or lighter bullets. That was one rifle and could have been a rifle/barrel specific problem, but for me it would not work. There is also the possibility that the throat was going in the STW but I would have expected the opposite in that case. So that still has me scratching my head.

There is no doubt the 7 STW is a fast cartridge with lighter bullets. But for long range work I will take more BC, less Drift, and more energy when I can get it. For this with todays bullets the 300 win serves me well.

I see your point , bullet weight to bullet weight, but I wouldn't load a 168 in a 300 win even if I were hunting mice at 200 yards. I believe in loading both for the longest shot I may engage. A shot shorter than that just becomes easier with either rifle.

Thanks
Jeff
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