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7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

 
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  #638  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:02 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by WapitiBob View Post
Shot my 168 Barnes LRX at .030 .050 .070 off the lands as recommended by Barnes. Blew them all over the paper. Not even worth a picture. Sticking with 180 Bergers and Retumbo.

On another note, what are you guys using for a shoulder bump gage? I saw in Tubbs reloading video the RCBS mic but they apparently don't have that in STW. Are you using the Lee or Hornady caliper setup?
Hey Bob, how are ya? Sorry to hear about the LRX's not shooting well. I have been sorta interested in those, as I have been a roll with them shooting well for me recently. Not in that weight, but in two calibers, and two different weights.
There are a few ways to get your proper setting on your sizer die, but you must be careful with belted mags. You can do the old " smoked shoulder trick" which is what I do, and it works great. Simply smoke the shoulder of a once fired case. Lube the side, and inside the neck. Back off you die, and progressively screw it back down, and watch the shoulder, which should have soot on it. As soon as you see the " soot" have a print on it from the die, you are done. That is typically a .003 bump. Then you must monitor the next few chamberings. If it is too tight, you have have to turn it down another eighth turn or so! One thing about belted mags, is that that sometimes they shoot well, with a lite shoulder bump, and some shoot better full length resized, or just off the bottom. And don't forget, you should be doing two shot groups, cool, and add to the same group. How does your barrel feel when you are cleaning it? What is your round count? I am just trying to get a feel for what the barrel should be grouping like now! Take care, 7 STW.
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  #639  
Old 05-18-2012, 08:12 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by WapitiBob View Post
Shot my 168 Barnes LRX at .030 .050 .070 off the lands as recommended by Barnes. Blew them all over the paper. Not even worth a picture. Sticking with 180 Bergers and Retumbo.

On another note, what are you guys using for a shoulder bump gage? I saw in Tubbs reloading video the RCBS mic but they apparently don't have that in STW. Are you using the Lee or Hornady caliper setup?

Barnes are funny that way. your gun will love em or it wil hate em, come to think of it, that's most monolithics. I guess that's why I don't have but a few rifles even using loads with mono's.

As far as shoulder bump, for me I don't guage, I smoke the shoulder of a fired round and turn the die down 'till it starts to disturb the soot. It took .015" per shot growth and kicked it under.003" on my newer lh stw.
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  #640  
Old 05-18-2012, 09:26 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

I have set my die as per RCBS. Down tight to the shell holder then back off "about that much". Never knew any better till I watched Tubbs video today. I have NO idea where I'm at. I will try that "smoke trick".

I probably have 100 rounds thru the barrel now and not much closer to a decent group except for the Bergers. They have always grouped better, even before I put pressure under the barrel for-end.

The first cpl patches with solvent push "real hard" thru the barrel. I then run a soaked nylon brush back/forth several times. Several patches of solvent later it's like glass.
First patches with CR-10 tighten up a little bit and subsequent patches tend to "stick" as they go down if I hesitate at all. I've noticed the copper comes out sooner but it still takes 30 minutes to clean it out.
Being a factory barrel I wasn't expecting a whole lot but sure thought more than one combination would shoot.
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  #641  
Old 05-19-2012, 12:02 AM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Cpl questions, I trimmed a fired case to .002 below SAAMI. I also didn't put my decapper back in the die body.
I couldn't make any soot so I used some neck powder that was laying around. I set the die to touch the dust then chambered the case. I can feel it snug up but the bolt closes fine. Should I bump the shoulder just a touch more? The new sized case length is .002 over SAAMI length.
Also, The ID of the case neck, without the sizer ball going thru it is .275. Is this where neck turning comes in so the die doesn't compress the neck so much? It has always been a pull to get the ball back up out of the cases I load.
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  #642  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by WapitiBob View Post
Cpl questions, I trimmed a fired case to .002 below SAAMI. I also didn't put my decapper back in the die body.
I couldn't make any soot so I used some neck powder that was laying around. I set the die to touch the dust then chambered the case. I can feel it snug up but the bolt closes fine. Should I bump the shoulder just a touch more? The new sized case length is .002 over SAAMI length.
Also, The ID of the case neck, without the sizer ball going thru it is .275. Is this where neck turning comes in so the die doesn't compress the neck so much? It has always been a pull to get the ball back up out of the cases I load.
The way you did the die adjustment minus the soot seems to be just about right. The main thing is that the shoulder gets a little bump each time to keep it in check. Now, you MAY have to turn it down a little on the next few firings, but time and effort will tell you when.
Now, as to the neck turning, I would not go there. With a factory chamber being so liberal, if you turn the necks, then the necks may not seal to the chamber. Then what happens is that the necks have to expand so far, in a attempt to seal, that now they are way overbore in diameter. Then when you resize, you over stress the brass, then it work hardens. And actually, it is just about right, right now, because the expander ball will take care of the rest.
On a final note, I would get that barrel lapped. Do not do it your self. It seems like that barrel should be a little smoother by now, and that definitely is a issue. I wish I could put my hands on that gun, I know damn well I can make it shot. Right now, its a diamond in the rough, but the rough part is the barrel! I am sure that it must copper foul quick. When you use barnes bullets, they tend to foul a little quicker anyway, if they are not smooth, it is even worse. There are guys out there, especially those that do a lot of barrel work, that know how to lap a barrel. You can ruin a barrel quick if it is done the wrong way, using the wrong stuff. Take care, and dont loose the faith. You just have some polishing to do!!!!
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LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!
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  #643  
Old 05-19-2012, 05:41 AM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

7stw,

Would David Tubbs "Final Finish" product be an alternative here, to going to a gunsmith?

Your opinion welcomed.
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  #644  
Old 05-19-2012, 07:46 AM
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Location: York, Pa.
Posts: 592
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

As for barrel polishing a JB patch over a nylon brush.....just make sure you mark the rod so you don't go out of the muzzle end or the chamber. This needs to be done AFTER you clean the barrel.
This will help clean the roughness up some what. You need to spend at least ten minutes doing polishing or more and change the patches....cleaning barrel between the patch changes. It will make a difference.

As for shoulder bumping I use the Hornandy gauges. Big mags often shoot any where from .0025 -.005 shoulder bumped back. Gotta find your own sweet spot. I like .003-.0035
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