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7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

 
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  #470  
Old 04-29-2012, 07:33 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

7stw,

I don't think it was a bad batch, just like you said.... too much horse power.

On a side note, my friend hunts with a .300 RUM and we get great accuracy with the 180g Barnes TTSX at 3400fps (99g retumbo), however I'm not too impressed with them... he has taken 2 bulls and 1, 4x4 muley buck with them and the Muley required 2 shots and I recovered both bullets distance was 350 yds. One of the bullt took 3 shots and the other 2 all were well placed kill zone shots.

My friend invested in 180g Scriccos, but we can't get them to group, I 've convinced him to try a heavier bullet, so we'll have to see which bullet he decides on and see the results.

Cool to hear about the .308.... repeatable accuracy may be boring to some, but being able to hit what you aim at is awesome! I've loaded new fireform loads for my .30-06 AI. They are 180g Hornady hollow poin match bullets loaded to 2800 fps. They are super accurate for fireform loads and I can hit baseball sized swingers with them at 300yds. lots of fun!!!

All of my rifles, except for the 7 STW aren't magnums, so I shoot Hornady SSTs and Sierra Gamekings out of them, they work great for deer and elk...

Later,
Dan
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  #471  
Old 04-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Dano1, when I said " bad batch" I was referring to the 7 mm, 168 VLD"s, that blew up at velocities that I would have thought were way safe. That was only 2977 fps. I may try the 180's. That bullet does certainly intrigue me. Will keep you posted, and glad that all is well . Take care.
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  #472  
Old 04-29-2012, 09:07 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Good reading tonight.

Dano, have you taken any game (what kind) with the gamekings? They shoot great out of my 7STW.

Len on here used 177 grain Cauterucio's for quite some time, you might email him on his Elk experience. He's Len Backus the owner of this fine site.

I have never hunted Elk as a NYer it's whitetail here mostly. But I do want to Elk hunt, it's in the mix over the next year or so. Along with Mulie's.

Here's something I read from an outfitter on Elk bullets, he recommends;

Winchester XP3
Barnes MRX
Barnes Tipped-TSX
Trophy Bonded Tipped Bear Claw
Hornady GMX
Swift A-Frame

-at least 160 grains.

I'm going to try these and pick the best shooting for Elk hunting.
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  #473  
Old 04-29-2012, 10:08 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Ed,

I've taken quite a few Muledeer with the Gamekings, I've taken 2 bucks with a 100g Sierra GK out of my .243 AI, 2 using a 150g GK out of a 7mm Rem Mag Sendero (I don't have this rifle any more) Several Bucks using 165g GK out of my .30-06 before and after I built it into a .30-06 AI. and 1 Cow Elk with a 165g GK also out of the Standard .30-06 Springfield.

My father also likes Gamekings out of his 7mm Rem Mag and .30-06 Springfield both Ruger no.1s. Both 150grns as well.

We have never lost an animal to a Gameking, They are very accurate, almost as accurate as Match Kings and held to very tight tolerances. They are a cup and core bullet, but they have all done quite well.

It seems that for the .30-06 a 165g GameKing loaded to 2700-2800 FPS is a match made in heaven. Many deer have been taken with this combo.

Right now I have a load for my 7 STW using a 160g Sierra Gameking Hollow point over 77g of IMR7828 (seated to fit the magazine) that shoots at about an inch out of my rifle. It was a generic load that I put together to get the rifle on paper this last fall. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a Big muley buck or even a huge bull elk with this load. It would drop them like a ton of bricks.

My problem is that I keep chasing the most accurate load for both targets and hunting. Some of my best groups have been with Sierras, I've been able to get Bergers to shoot tighter groups. Both are well under an inch, but the Bergers out shoot the Gamekings. I don't dare hunt with Matchkings, as I've heard about penciling and other bad things happening with them.

So as far as accuracy is concerned, Berger wins in my .30-06 AI. Hornady won in my 6.5-06 AI (which my Father now owns), Sierra wins in the .243 AI and my Father's .30-06 Springfield and 7mm Rem Mag . Sierra also wins in my .243 Win Varmit rifle, it shoots 75g Hollow Points.

Sierras are great bullets. They perform quite well on Big Game and are easy to get to shoot. bergers perform quite diffrently, but Dead is Dead and if you can drop them in their tracks it's an awesome feeling. But both will get the job done. If you have reservations about these two bullets go to a 160g Nosler Accubond.

The bullets that the outfitter recommended are all good elk bullets, but the question is, can you get them to shoot with the level of accuracy that you desire?? I agree with the bullet weight thing as it gives something of a fudge factor for erronious shooting, but they may not shoot well in a standard 7 mag, they may do well in your 7 stw. Most outfitters are dealing with clients who don't shoot very often or have problems with buck/ bull fever. I've had friends I've taken who have the same issues. It definately makes things interesting and usually I'm having to work harder for something that wouldn't hve been that bad had they made a better shot. Guys like us who do lots of shooting can place shots with precision. Those 160g Sierras will do very well if you put'em in the lungs or heart, a liver shot will kill'em very quickly as well.

Sorry for rambling on....

Dan
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  #474  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Dan,

I like your rambling, I'm learning a lot about Berger bullets without burning my barrel out. I also contacted Berger for some reloading data on the 168 & 180 VLD bullets. The strange thing that I noticed is that maximum listed velocity with both bullets was right at 2900 - 3050 fps. Unfortunately Walt Berger did give an explanation. Now I understand don't push these bullets faster. You have me back on my original track and that is to stay with the 160gr. Nosler Accubond or 168 gr.Barnes LRX.
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  #475  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:01 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

What's interesting to me, is that almost all 1000 yard bench shooters it seems, no matter what the caliber, shoot at between 2950 and 3050! There must be something about match bullets that is consistent as in possibly the aerodynamics of the flight as it slows.

Hunting is an accuracy game but additional velocity kills quicker. At least that's what I am thinking.

Finding the right bullet and the right speed for it to be accurate and harvest animals is critical.
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  #476  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:11 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Ed,

You've hit it right on the head, in so much as a lighter bullet pushed faster will kill quicker and impart more energy ( at normal or midrange distances)

I would also add if I may, that heavier for calibers retain their energy at a much longer distance than the lighter faster bullets and have the ability to be more accurate at the longer distances due to higher BCs if the rifle can stabilize them. This is why the large caliber longrange shooters are screaming at Berger to make the Bigger VLDs and Hybrid Bullets. What they have been able to do with the big bullets is amazing to say the least.

Barnes for the most part goes with he lighter bullet being pushed faster concept. The fact that they are a homogenous solid bullet the metal being copper. All other "lead free" bullets on the market are some form of gilding metal same as a regular bullet jacket. These bullets will hold together at extreme velocities and do work with impressive results.

I'm the type of guy that wishes that there was the best of both worlds, but we all know that there is no such thing as the best bullet out there.

I'm leaning toward (as far as my 7STW is concerned) I'm trying to shoot the biggest bullet I can at the highest velocity, Im working with the 180g Berger VLDs. My rifle has a 1-9 twist so it has been able to stabilize them quite well.

With my .30-06 AI I'm right on the threshold with velocity at 3125fps with the 168g VLDs, the 190s will do better and hit harder at longer distances but the rifle can only push the to 2850 FPS or so. Fortunately I can sight in my rifle for both bullets to have the same 200yd zero after that they need diffrent drop calculations.

Riverman,

I'd hate to have anybody not choose Bergers because of me, but if your intention is to push them faster than 3200fps, you'd be correct in choosing a tougher bullet.

It all boils down to:

What distances will you be hunting at? 0-500yds? Barnes, Swift Scriccos & A-Frames, Hornady Interbonds and Nosler Accubonds are the way to go. Further a Berger will drop'em with out blowing up on impact and should be able to take them waaaaayyyy out there. Hopefully I'll be able to prove this theory this fall.

dang,

I'm Rambling again.......

later,

Dan
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