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7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

 
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  #2738  
Old 02-15-2013, 09:32 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

TE=7stw760901]Ok Rick, I'll attempt to translate my thinking into text, but you are on the right track. You do not have to do this to the neck die. The neck die ONLY sizes or resized the neck only, and doesnt contact the body. But you are spot on with your approach, and understanding. I have another method that works very well, that is timeless, and guys have been doing it for years, ( me too).
Smoked shoulder anyone? Take a once fired case, lube the sides ONLY, not the shoulder or neck! Take a candle, or a cigarette lighter, and hold it under the shoulder and neck area on the case, and don't touch it. You are trying to soot it up completely. It does get warm, so use pliers if needed. Now, while it's cooling a little, back off your resizer lock ring, and unscrew it about two turns. Now comes the tricky part, but not really. Run the case up into the die and back out. Note the soot on the top of the shoulder. Keep gradually screwing DOWN on the die til you see a change in the soot on the top off the shoulder. When you just see a change in the soot, you are at about zero. I usually give it about another 1/4 turn down. Lock up you lock ring, and re adjust your expander to center, and just to the point where it pushes out the primer.
Sometimes, you may need to do this a few times, so have a few pieces of brass on hand. The better the " soot print" you have, the better you will be able to read it. If you feel comfortable with the Gage, that's fine. If you want to check yourself, this is the way to do it. This normally yields about .003 shoulder bump, +-.
great write up 7stw!
I was fortunate enough to get a fair about of new Remington brass locally and I'm going to try this tomorrow. my question is, do i need to fulll size all the brass, then serve up the smoked shoulder recipe after once firing, or can i just do a half dozen to get the soot shoulder sizing right then just size the rest from there?
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  #2739  
Old 02-15-2013, 10:45 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: N.D.
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevendysixty View Post
TE=7stw760901]Ok Rick, I'll attempt to translate my thinking into text, but you are on the right track. You do not have to do this to the neck die. The neck die ONLY sizes or resized the neck only, and doesnt contact the body. But you are spot on with your approach, and understanding. I have another method that works very well, that is timeless, and guys have been doing it for years, ( me too).
Smoked shoulder anyone? Take a once fired case, lube the sides ONLY, not the shoulder or neck! Take a candle, or a cigarette lighter, and hold it under the shoulder and neck area on the case, and don't touch it. You are trying to soot it up completely. It does get warm, so use pliers if needed. Now, while it's cooling a little, back off your resizer lock ring, and unscrew it about two turns. Now comes the tricky part, but not really. Run the case up into the die and back out. Note the soot on the top of the shoulder. Keep gradually screwing DOWN on the die til you see a change in the soot on the top off the shoulder. When you just see a change in the soot, you are at about zero. I usually give it about another 1/4 turn down. Lock up you lock ring, and re adjust your expander to center, and just to the point where it pushes out the primer.
Sometimes, you may need to do this a few times, so have a few pieces of brass on hand. The better the " soot print" you have, the better you will be able to read it. If you feel comfortable with the Gage, that's fine. If you want to check yourself, this is the way to do it. This normally yields about .003 shoulder bump, +-.
great write up 7stw!
I was fortunate enough to get a fair about of new Remington brass locally and I'm going to try this tomorrow. my question is, do i need to fulll size all the brass, then serve up the smoked shoulder recipe after once firing, or can i just do a half dozen to get the soot shoulder sizing right then just size the rest from there?
Just set your dies for the correct shoulder dimension and ler 'er buck. I've had to do this with my 7stw as it has a rather long chamber. The new brass will simply neck size and fired brass will be correct.
I'm also getting 7stw brass locally; the local shop had some in today for $35 a fifty. I've already got more than enough to shoot this barrel out.
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  #2740  
Old 02-16-2013, 07:36 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Leominster mass, originally Salisbury Maryland
Posts: 1,324
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevendysixty View Post
TE=7stw760901]Ok Rick, I'll attempt to translate my thinking into text, but you are on the right track. You do not have to do this to the neck die. The neck die ONLY sizes or resized the neck only, and doesnt contact the body. But you are spot on with your approach, and understanding. I have another method that works very well, that is timeless, and guys have been doing it for years, ( me too).
Smoked shoulder anyone? Take a once fired case, lube the sides ONLY, not the shoulder or neck! Take a candle, or a cigarette lighter, and hold it under the shoulder and neck area on the case, and don't touch it. You are trying to soot it up completely. It does get warm, so use pliers if needed. Now, while it's cooling a little, back off your resizer lock ring, and unscrew it about two turns. Now comes the tricky part, but not really. Run the case up into the die and back out. Note the soot on the top of the shoulder. Keep gradually screwing DOWN on the die til you see a change in the soot on the top off the shoulder. When you just see a change in the soot, you are at about zero. I usually give it about another 1/4 turn down. Lock up you lock ring, and re adjust your expander to center, and just to the point where it pushes out the primer.
Sometimes, you may need to do this a few times, so have a few pieces of brass on hand. The better the " soot print" you have, the better you will be able to read it. If you feel comfortable with the Gage, that's fine. If you want to check yourself, this is the way to do it. This normally yields about .003 shoulder bump, +-.
great write up 7stw!
I was fortunate enough to get a fair about of new Remington brass locally and I'm going to try this tomorrow. my question is, do i need to fulll size all the brass, then serve up the smoked shoulder recipe after once firing, or can i just do a half dozen to get the soot shoulder sizing right then just size the rest from there?
Elevendysixty, the settings I was referring to are to be done AFTER your first firing. You may want to just run ALL the NEW brass through your die before firing so you can get the necks perfectly round . When to set up your die to do this, just screw it down to the shell plate, with the ram at the top, no cam over needed for this. I have seen as much as .045 gap between " virgin" brass, and once fired. The reason for this, is that because this is a belted mag, when new, it headspaces on the BELT. After you set your dies as we spoke of, it will also be supported by the shoulder s well.
So, don't make any permanent settings until you get some once fired brass. After you get the hang of that, there are some other cool things that you can do to your brass that show accuracy " dividends" on paper. But like everything else, one step at a time.
Glad you liked my explanation. It's so easy to do, but I had to think about how I wrote it, so that I didn't skip over something that was assumed that you understood. Once you get the hang of it, and get the " perfect" die setting, you will know it! Take care, and be patient, it will come out fine.
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AIM SMALL,MISS SMALL. 7 STW
LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!
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  #2741  
Old 02-16-2013, 07:58 AM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by etisll40 View Post
How many firings do you get with norma 7stw brass?
Ed, I have to wholeheartedly agree with WildRose on the brass life, using Norma brass. In one of my 7 mags, I have EIGHT firings on some NORMA brass in that gun, and it's as good as it was when I first fired it. Pockets are tight, necks are mint, and that stuff almost doesnt grow either. It's pricey, yeah, but just like anything else, especially in this " hobby" , you only get what you pay for!
Fortunately for us, at least they make a full size HH family case that we can fire form to. How awesome would THAT be if they made this round?
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AIM SMALL,MISS SMALL. 7 STW
LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!
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  #2742  
Old 02-16-2013, 02:51 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 83
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7stw View Post
Ed, I have to wholeheartedly agree with WildRose on the brass life, using Norma brass. In one of my 7 mags, I have EIGHT firings on some NORMA brass in that gun, and it's as good as it was when I first fired it. Pockets are tight, necks are mint, and that stuff almost doesnt grow either. It's pricey, yeah, but just like anything else, especially in this " hobby" , you only get what you pay for!
Fortunately for us, at least they make a full size HH family case that we can fire form to. How awesome would THAT be if they made this round?
There was a elderly Gunsmith who lived just acouple of streets away from me,
he was an old school gentleman and a very competitive F class shooter, winning plenty of events and trophys.
Unfortunitely he past away just last year and he had this saying,
" You gotta pay if you want to play."
I guess it would apply to most sports but when your out shooting your rifle I don't give a damn about what its costing me.
Regards Steve.
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  #2743  
Old 02-16-2013, 07:20 PM
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Location: Leominster mass, originally Salisbury Maryland
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

NORMA BRASS!!!!!
Hey guys, I was just on GunBroker, and there is some NORMA unformed 300 HH cases for sale. The guy has 160 pieces of brass, that can be had for $ 140.00. I don't know how to form STW brss from unformed brass, but I know it can be done. Just go to the search bar, and write in Norma brass, it will show up with a few others as well.
FYI...........
__________________
AIM SMALL,MISS SMALL. 7 STW
LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!
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  #2744  
Old 02-16-2013, 11:54 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: N.D.
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7stw View Post
NORMA BRASS!!!!!
Hey guys, I was just on GunBroker, and there is some NORMA unformed 300 HH cases for sale. The guy has 160 pieces of brass, that can be had for $ 140.00. I don't know how to form STW brss from unformed brass, but I know it can be done. Just go to the search bar, and write in Norma brass, it will show up with a few others as well.
FYI...........
With 300 h@h brass I'd just run it through your 7stw sizer and fireform with a start load from stw data. With the belt for headspace you don't even HAVE to run your bullets into the rifling, but I would if I could to keep the stretching just above the belt down. With 375h@h I run it through either a 338win die or 300 win die set long (for the stw shoulder dimension) and then final form to 7stw with a fl sizer die. The shoulder will be narrow and a bit shallow until you pop it out with the fireform.
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