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7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

 
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  #2689  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:14 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

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Originally Posted by ricky b View Post
I would like to talk about bumping the shoulder back .003 or .0035. Want to make sure I understand what is going on here. What I think I know is you take a fired case out of your STW and measure it with a Hornday Head Space gauge and caliber and you write down the measurement. You then set up your die so when you resize the case your measurement is .003 less than your first? I hope that's it.

Also can this be down with a neck sizer die or do we have to use Full Length sizer die. I have both but have never understood what bumping the shoulder back means or why we do it. Thanks Rick
Ok Rick, I'll attempt to translate my thinking into text, but you are on the right track. You do not have to do this to the neck die. The neck die ONLY sizes or resized the neck only, and doesnt contact the body. But you are spot on with your approach, and understanding. I have another method that works very well, that is timeless, and guys have been doing it for years, ( me too).
Smoked shoulder anyone? Take a once fired case, lube the sides ONLY, not the shoulder or neck! Take a candle, or a cigarette lighter, and hold it under the shoulder and neck area on the case, and don't touch it. You are trying to soot it up completely. It does get warm, so use pliers if needed. Now, while it's cooling a little, back off your resizer lock ring, and unscrew it about two turns. Now comes the tricky part, but not really. Run the case up into the die and back out. Note the soot on the top of the shoulder. Keep gradually screwing DOWN on the die til you see a change in the soot on the top off the shoulder. When you just see a change in the soot, you are at about zero. I usually give it about another 1/4 turn down. Lock up you lock ring, and re adjust your expander to center, and just to the point where it pushes out the primer.
Sometimes, you may need to do this a few times, so have a few pieces of brass on hand. The better the " soot print" you have, the better you will be able to read it. If you feel comfortable with the Gage, that's fine. If you want to check yourself, this is the way to do it. This normally yields about .003 shoulder bump, +-.
IF, you feel that the chambering is too stiff, you may have to turn it down a little more. Once you get it set correctly, it will extend your brass life, and make the rifle more accurate.
This is a trial and error exercise, but once you find that sweet spot, you are golden!
__________________
AIM SMALL,MISS SMALL. 7 STW
LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!

Last edited by 7stw; 02-08-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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  #2690  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7stw View Post
Ok Rick, I'll attempt to translate my thinking into text, but you are on the right track. You do not have to do this to the neck die. The neck die ONLY sizes or resized the neck only, and doesnt contact the body. But you are spot on with your approach, and understanding. I have another method that works very well, that is timeless, and guys have been doing it for years, ( me too).
Smoked shoulder anyone? Take a once fired case, lube the sides ONLY, not the shoulder or neck! Take a candle, or a cigarette lighter, and hold it under the shoulder and neck area on the case, and don't touch it. You are trying to soot it up completely. It does get warm, so use pliers if needed. Now, while it's cooling a little, back off your resizer lock ring, and unscrew it about two turns. Now comes the tricky part, but not really. Run the case up into the die and back out. Note the soot on the top of the shoulder. Keep gradually screwing DOWN on the die til you see a change in the soot on the top off the shoulder. When you just see a change in the soot, you are at about zero. I usually give it about another 1/4 turn down. Lock up you lock ring, and re adjust your expander to center, and just to the point where it pushes out the primer.
Sometimes, you may need to do this a few times, or have a few prices of brass on hand. The bested the " soot print" you have, the better you will be able to read it. If you feel comfortable with the Gage, that's fine. If you want to check yourself, this is the way to do it.
IF, you feel that the chambering is too stiff, you may have to turn it down a little more. Once you get it set correctly, it will extend your brass life, and make the rifle more accurate.
This is a trial and error exercise, but once you find that sweet spot, you are golden!

Thanks STW for the instructions. Couple of questions about doing this. If I am neck sizing my brass shot from the same gun I want have to do this for lets say three or four reloads. There will be a time where I can't neck size anymore and then I want to full length resize by bumping the shoulder back .003


Or should I be full length sizing everytime I reload and when I full length size just bump the shoulder back .003??????????? Thanks Rick
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  #2691  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Leominster mass, originally Salisbury Maryland
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky b View Post
Thanks STW for the instructions. Couple of questions about doing this. If I am neck sizing my brass shot from the same gun I want have to do this for lets say three or four reloads. There will be a time where I can't neck size anymore and then I want to full length resize by bumping the shoulder back .003


Or should I be full length sizing everytime I reload and when I full length size just bump the shoulder back .003??????????? Thanks Rick
That again is a trial and error thing too. Some folks, alternate. ( meaning full length this firing, neck size next time. ). You will need to see what your rifle likes. That's the most important thing. The one thing about alternating, is that eventually, you will have to return to the full length resizer. Neck sizing only, will let the brass grow a little, and if you wait too long, then full length resize, you might " buckle " the shoulder, or drive it back and deform the brass. It's a balancing act. I full length resize only, for that reason, but I have them set up, so they don't stress the brass much. Like I said before, once you find that sweetspot, you really aren't stressing the brass much, even though you are full length sizing. Try just full length for a while first, then experiment with the neck sizer.
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AIM SMALL,MISS SMALL. 7 STW
LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!
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  #2692  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:57 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 27
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Hi guys!
Was a trip on the shooting range today. Damn cold -26 celsius. Tested the stw on 500 meters today for the first time on paper. Punched in the ammo/gun data in shooter. 2.6 mil up said shooter, adjusted the scope and fired. Center hit on the metal target. Then sighted in on the paper target, and ended up with a 10 shot group 156 mm. That's an ok,not good group for me. I have to test a little bit more so i get some smaller groups. This was with 162 gr a-max, new remington brass, federal 215, 73 gr Vv 560. Any suggestions for improvement?
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  #2693  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:14 PM
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Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by trondheim View Post
Hi guys!
Was a trip on the shooting range today. Damn cold -26 celsius. Tested the stw on 500 meters today for the first time on paper. Punched in the ammo/gun data in shooter. 2.6 mil up said shooter, adjusted the scope and fired. Center hit on the metal target. Then sighted in on the paper target, and ended up with a 10 shot group 156 mm. That's an ok,not good group for me. I have to test a little bit more so i get some smaller groups. This was with 162 gr a-max, new remington brass, federal 215, 73 gr Vv 560. Any suggestions for improvement?
Trondheim, with the extreme cold, and the new brass, I would try that load again in better conditions. Your load info sounds to be in the range. If I remember corectly, VV560 is the high energy version of the old N160, which is a excellent powder for the STW, and the 162 A Max. The one thing that you didn't mention was your scope. Hopefully, you are using a scope with adjustable parallax, and that you are able to dial in the parallax correction. Was the group cemetrical, or was it vertical, horizontal? all of those variables, or the pattern of the group may help, but I think you are on the right path, and that may very well be a great load, with no changes needed. The group you got under your present set up converts to 6.14 inches. You certainly would not miss a game animal at that distance, and it is right at or about MOA as it is!
I think you are onto a good load.
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AIM SMALL,MISS SMALL. 7 STW
LIFE IS TOO SHORT! AND WE ARE A LONG TIME DEAD!!!
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  #2694  
Old 02-10-2013, 12:27 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Halfway between Lubbock and Dallas
Posts: 5,149
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobs View Post
Hey Guys, need some advice... I recently listed a few guns for sale on this site & another. Got a lot of response and now have to figure out how to ship them and exchange $. Do I need to have my FFL ship to the buyer's FFL? That was my impression. As it happens, I have a guy in Toronto who wants me to ship a rifle to a commercial receiver in Niagra Falls NY where he would pick it up. Also, how should I handle payment? Any info and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The best protection for yourself is to always go through an FFL at least on the receiving end. Check with the FFL dealer you are to ship to and find out their requirements including be sure they will accept from a Non FFL holder. If they won't you'll have to ship through one to his FFL.

I would be very careful about the gun going to Canada because if he's taking it over the border illegally you are aiding and abetting a felony on both sides of the border.

I always get the cash in hand before it leaves my possession. If I'm buying from someone I do not know and don't feel 100% good about, I will insist he ships through an FFL and I will send the payment to the FFL holder to be held in trust until the weapon is delivered to them and inspected.

I've bought quite a few from people here and at Sniper's Hide though and have never had a problem.
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  #2695  
Old 02-10-2013, 12:47 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Halfway between Lubbock and Dallas
Posts: 5,149
Re: 7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7stw View Post
Ok Rick, I'll attempt to translate my thinking into text, but you are on the right track. You do not have to do this to the neck die. The neck die ONLY sizes or resized the neck only, and doesnt contact the body. But you are spot on with your approach, and understanding. I have another method that works very well, that is timeless, and guys have been doing it for years, ( me too).
Smoked shoulder anyone? Take a once fired case, lube the sides ONLY, not the shoulder or neck! Take a candle, or a cigarette lighter, and hold it under the shoulder and neck area on the case, and don't touch it. You are trying to soot it up completely. It does get warm, so use pliers if needed. Now, while it's cooling a little, back off your resizer lock ring, and unscrew it about two turns. Now comes the tricky part, but not really. Run the case up into the die and back out. Note the soot on the top of the shoulder. Keep gradually screwing DOWN on the die til you see a change in the soot on the top off the shoulder. When you just see a change in the soot, you are at about zero. I usually give it about another 1/4 turn down. Lock up you lock ring, and re adjust your expander to center, and just to the point where it pushes out the primer.
Sometimes, you may need to do this a few times, so have a few pieces of brass on hand. The better the " soot print" you have, the better you will be able to read it. If you feel comfortable with the Gage, that's fine. If you want to check yourself, this is the way to do it. This normally yields about .003 shoulder bump, +-.
IF, you feel that the chambering is too stiff, you may have to turn it down a little more. Once you get it set correctly, it will extend your brass life, and make the rifle more accurate.
This is a trial and error exercise, but once you find that sweet spot, you are golden!
That's pretty close to how I set up for a full sizing die myself. I just don't crank it down the extra quarter turn.

When I have it at zero, I'll run the case into the chamber and see how the bolt closes. I want the bolt to close easily but I want just a shade of felt resistance.

I'll work the case back and forth between the chamber and the die just moving the die about 1/10-1/8th turn at a time. I may end up a full quarter but I get there gradually.

The less expansion happens with each shot at the shoulder and neck the longer your brass will last.
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