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What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

 
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2014, 11:18 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hanover County, Va
Posts: 34
Re: What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

I didn't read all the responses, but it is likely I don't agree with any of the responders to your question.

When you prepare for running your table, you take input from a temp gauge, a chronograph, etc, and enter them into your software. You likely will start with the manufacturers BC which of course is representative of a range of travel, such as 1-1000 yes, 2400-3500, 100-200, etc. and you will not know for what distance You might want a BC to 500, another to 1000, etc.

After your obligatory 100 yd work, go to the above distance you want to use for the BC, enter the BC in the book and enter EVERYTHING else exactly as you read it, distance, temp, altitude. Shoot and observe. Tweak the BC up or down until the trajectory meets the software solution at at least 2 points. One would likely do, but you will feel better to observe 2 on the money.

I have done an awful lot of long range varminting and misses on the vertical were extremely rare.
I will be shooting in 10 days at distances up to 3500 and have just reattached an external scope with different spacing on the feet so I need to do work at 100 for a base and then probably 1000 and working up by 500 yes at a time. My BC will continue to decline making me shoot even higher to make up for it. As I get it right at each distance I have the makings of determining the new BC for each longer distance.

Take copious notes with drawings so that all that is found out can become KNOWLEDGE.

I am anal about ballistics and blasť about most everything else! Go figure.
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  #23  
Old 05-15-2014, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 127
Re: What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyinVa View Post
I didn't read all the responses, but it is likely I don't agree with any of the responders to your question.

When you prepare for running your table, you take input from a temp gauge, a chronograph, etc, and enter them into your software. You likely will start with the manufacturers BC which of course is representative of a range of travel, such as 1-1000 yes, 2400-3500, 100-200, etc. and you will not know for what distance You might want a BC to 500, another to 1000, etc.

After your obligatory 100 yd work, go to the above distance you want to use for the BC, enter the BC in the book and enter EVERYTHING else exactly as you read it, distance, temp, altitude. Shoot and observe. Tweak the BC up or down until the trajectory meets the software solution at at least 2 points. One would likely do, but you will feel better to observe 2 on the money.

I have done an awful lot of long range varminting and misses on the vertical were extremely rare.
I will be shooting in 10 days at distances up to 3500 and have just reattached an external scope with different spacing on the feet so I need to do work at 100 for a base and then probably 1000 and working up by 500 yes at a time. My BC will continue to decline making me shoot even higher to make up for it. As I get it right at each distance I have the makings of determining the new BC for each longer distance.

Take copious notes with drawings so that all that is found out can become KNOWLEDGE.

I am anal about ballistics and blasť about most everything else! Go figure.
All great info, I have the Kestral with Horus Ballistics that I csan use toi adjust BC as the range increase. I know to adjust for BC throug the transonic range but I was told to adjust MV just before transoinc to true the ballistics.
So I was trained to sight in the gun at a close range, then shoot a group out at thge farthest range I can shoot consistant groups with my skill, and if that group doesn't match up with ballistics the again change the MV. Then, any ballistics adjustment through transoninc ranges are only bc adjustments.

This method has worked for many operators in this field with this horus ballistics program.

Are you saying yo ojnly adjust MV at close range and everyting else is a BC adjustment.

Your thoughts on our mehtod??

Thanks
Joden
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  #24  
Old 05-15-2014, 12:28 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 127
Re: What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyinVa View Post
I didn't read all the responses, but it is likely I don't agree with any of the responders to your question.

When you prepare for running your table, you take input from a temp gauge, a chronograph, etc, and enter them into your software. You likely will start with the manufacturers BC which of course is representative of a range of travel, such as 1-1000 yes, 2400-3500, 100-200, etc. and you will not know for what distance You might want a BC to 500, another to 1000, etc.

After your obligatory 100 yd work, go to the above distance you want to use for the BC, enter the BC in the book and enter EVERYTHING else exactly as you read it, distance, temp, altitude. Shoot and observe. Tweak the BC up or down until the trajectory meets the software solution at at least 2 points. One would likely do, but you will feel better to observe 2 on the money.

I have done an awful lot of long range varminting and misses on the vertical were extremely rare.
I will be shooting in 10 days at distances up to 3500 and have just reattached an external scope with different spacing on the feet so I need to do work at 100 for a base and then probably 1000 and working up by 500 yes at a time. My BC will continue to decline making me shoot even higher to make up for it. As I get it right at each distance I have the makings of determining the new BC for each longer distance.

Take copious notes with drawings so that all that is found out can become KNOWLEDGE.

I am anal about ballistics and blasť about most everything else! Go figure.
Also confused on your 1st paragraph, could you break it down for me?

And do you do ladder tests or the Optimal Charge Weight (OCW)?

Thanks
Joden
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  #25  
Old 05-15-2014, 12:56 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hanover County, Va
Posts: 34
Re: What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

I think the answer is yes. The ladder test is to determine repeatability and the actual amount that a scope moves when clicked. THIS value goes into the software. If it is .219, so be it. We care not what the advertised click value is advertised at. i did not cover that variable. The actual click value and the actual temp, elevation, and speed at the muzzle may not be exact but youi have NO reason to alter them.To make a parabola match a print out over distance, tweak the BC which is close to an average over some range till it matches.

If you are working up a load and you change one thing at a time and at some point take the lesser of evils and go to another variable to adjust for better.worse result. You don't change two things at the same time. Your variance from actual to fps, elevation, etc. are not measurable. The BC for a given piece of ground is determined by ACTUAL splashes. Don't even consider using changes to anything else without observing their actual change such as fps at different elevations.

One variable is enough to give you a headache. Two is virtually impossible to make work for more than ONE instance.

Hope this helps.



Quote:
Originally Posted by seidersjoden View Post
All great info, I have the Kestral with Horus Ballistics that I csan use toi adjust BC as the range increase. I know to adjust for BC throug the transonic range but I was told to adjust MV just before transoinc to true the ballistics.
So I was trained to sight in the gun at a close range, then shoot a group out at thge farthest range I can shoot consistant groups with my skill, and if that group doesn't match up with ballistics the again change the MV. Then, any ballistics adjustment through transoninc ranges are only bc adjustments.

This method has worked for many operators in this field with this horus ballistics program.

Are you saying yo ojnly adjust MV at close range and everyting else is a BC adjustment.

Your thoughts on our mehtod??

Thanks
Joden
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2014, 12:59 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hanover County, Va
Posts: 34
Re: What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

Yu don't need to adjust bc for subsonic entry and beyond. Your software does it very well. You are looking for something close to an average bc across the range you are actively shooting. It is of course not a real average since some manufacturers list bc for out to 300, 300-600, etc. Don't go chasing this game or you may end up eating a gun barrel!





Quote:
Originally Posted by seidersjoden View Post
All great info, I have the Kestral with Horus Ballistics that I csan use toi adjust BC as the range increase. I know to adjust for BC throug the transonic range but I was told to adjust MV just before transoinc to true the ballistics.
So I was trained to sight in the gun at a close range, then shoot a group out at thge farthest range I can shoot consistant groups with my skill, and if that group doesn't match up with ballistics the again change the MV. Then, any ballistics adjustment through transoninc ranges are only bc adjustments.

This method has worked for many operators in this field with this horus ballistics program.

Are you saying yo ojnly adjust MV at close range and everyting else is a BC adjustment.

Your thoughts on our mehtod??

Thanks
Joden
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-15-2014, 01:09 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hanover County, Va
Posts: 34
Re: What Variable to change Wen truing my Weapon at Extended Ranges

feel free to call me if you wish.

Randy
804-690-6868




Quote:
Originally Posted by seidersjoden View Post
When doing the truing process I have heard different opinions. Some say after sighting the gun in at 100y then shooting out at 900-1300y or whatever range you can consistently hit targets at, if the group is high or low to adjust the MV. Some say if I have Chronograph the gun and feel confident in the MV that I should change the BC. By the way Iím shooting the 230 Target Hybrids. Some people lean toward changing the MV over the BC when truing a weapon or vice versa. So my question is, if I do a good chrono of a weapon and take as many variables as I can out of the inputs I put into my Kestrel Atrag, which one should I change when truing the weapon to match the scope value?

Thanks,
Joden
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