Terminal velocity/energy

[Wachsmann]

So I was wondering what is the minimum energy/velocity needed to have some expansion on the bullet preferable Berger bullets. I searched it out and it seem the bergers are at or around 1600ft/sec but I see alot of post and videos of people shooting to the 1300 and 1500 and futher out killing animals. Running number it seem alot of common rifles will run out of steam in the 800 to 1200 yard range depending on the bullet load and velocity. So on some of the extreme ranges does the bullets expand lets say like at 1000 to 900 ft/lbs of energy/1000ft/sec or... just making 30cal hole in an animal. Anyone recovered bullets and have data/pics? I asked this question on another board and no one has responded. I also just read were the bullets once in the subsonic range, once hitting blastic gel the bullets tumble and exit out.

[Shawn Carlock]

Here is a picture of the 300 gr Berger Hybrid OTM bullet at different velocities. We also shot some out of a 338 Whisper at 1000 fps but did not take any pics (sorry). The 1000 fps shot still penetrated 15" of wet medium and had a perminate cavity of just under 1". The bullet was similar to the 1600 fps bullet in that the bullet started to bend as it traveled through and also tumbled at least once on it way. Terminaly speaking this is not a bad thing. The key for me is that the bullet penetrate far enough through the animal, that is my #1 consideration all else is secondary. If it fragments or tumbles while doing so that is great but not necessary. Too many people get hung up on what the bullet in terms of weight retention and expansion is doing, while forgetting that a crappy shot is still a crappy shot no matter what and blaming ones lack of shooting ability on bullet performance issues is a little misguided, this happens alot. So long as your hitting the "X" and penetrating a sufficient amount good things will happen. If the bullet still upsets in some fashion or tumbles etc better things will happen. Hope this helps.

[Joe King]

Originally Posted by Shawn Carlock

Here is a picture of the 300 gr Berger Hybrid OTM bullet at different velocities. We also shot some out of a 338 Whisper at 1000 fps but did not take any pics (sorry). The 1000 fps shot still penetrated 15" of wet medium and had a perminate cavity of just under 1". The bullet was similar to the 1600 fps bullet in that the bullet started to bend as it traveled through and also tumbled at least once on it way. Terminaly speaking this is not a bad thing. The key for me is that the bullet penetrate far enough through the animal, that is my #1 consideration all else is secondary. If it fragments or tumbles while doing so that is great but not necessary. Too many people get hung up on what the bullet in terms of weight retention and expansion is doing, while forgetting that a crappy shot is still a crappy shot no matter what and blaming ones lack of shooting ability on bullet performance issues is a little misguided, this happens alot. So long as your hitting the "X" and penetrating a sufficient amount good things will happen. If the bullet still upsets in some fashion or tumbles etc better things will happen. Hope this helps.

spoken like a guy that has seen what FMJ can do when it tumbles in flesh

[toddc]

Originally Posted by Shawn Carlock

Here is a picture of the 300 gr Berger Hybrid OTM bullet at different velocities. We also shot some out of a 338 Whisper at 1000 fps but did not take any pics (sorry). The 1000 fps shot still penetrated 15" of wet medium and had a perminate cavity of just under 1". The bullet was similar to the 1600 fps bullet in that the bullet started to bend as it traveled through and also tumbled at least once on it way. Terminaly speaking this is not a bad thing. The key for me is that the bullet penetrate far enough through the animal, that is my #1 consideration all else is secondary. If it fragments or tumbles while doing so that is great but not necessary. Too many people get hung up on what the bullet in terms of weight retention and expansion is doing, while forgetting that a crappy shot is still a crappy shot no matter what and blaming ones lack of shooting ability on bullet performance issues is a little misguided, this happens alot. So long as your hitting the "X" and penetrating a sufficient amount good things will happen. If the bullet still upsets in some fashion or tumbles etc better things will happen. Hope this helps.

So are you saying that all of the "I shot my deer with a berger in the lungs and it lived for 3 years" threads are bs? LMAO
Before anyone discusses anything related to terminal ballistics they should have a solid understanding of TRADITIONAL bullet design not related to bonding, polymers or plastics.
In reading all of these bullet threads about bergers its apparent that few understand SD and calibers and length and how it relates to performance. These are things any true gun crank knew about before the controlled expansion phase.Back in the day it was more about what weight to use for a given penetration. Same thing with a berger, since there are no CRUTCHES like barnes,swift and other makes. Seems to me many have lost common sense and are shooting 110 ttsx at elk because of MARKETERS not ballistic theorists.
Quit relying on bonds,tips and petals to do the job of a properly sized bullet. There is no replacement for a certain amount of sectional density and bullet manufacturers attempts to circumvent this has lead to hunters shooting game with bullets 30% too light as a bandaid.
And yes Ive killed a few with bergers at low velocity and the long VLDs always seem to tear something up. Seems they like to roll around and do gymnastics inside. Usually pretty hard on an animal.

[timeless61]

ToddC,

do you mind giving in your opinion a well sized bullet for given calibers say 7mm and 30?

thanks

[toddc]

Originally Posted by timeless61

ToddC,

do you mind giving in your opinion a well sized bullet for given calibers say 7mm and 30?

thanks

I havent tried the 230 bergers but always had trouble over 220 with the RUM. Not enuf speed. So I always used the 210 and had good luck with it so I would use the 215 hybrid for the better bc for sure. The 7mm the 180gr. Also depends if your cartridge can drive it but thats why I like to be at the top of the food chain related to bore size and powder capacity.
I always strive to use the heaviest slug possible with a eye towards balanciing for best effeciency with a given weight in a particular cartridge.