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My New Defensive Edge LRKM

 
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  #162  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:49 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Back to the LRKM... Jeff you suppose Shawn will chamber a super duper 375 in the LRKM someday? How bout a Raptor Kirby?
Not sure if Shawn will or not. I know he is very busy producing 338's right now.

I am not far enough into my new 338 to draw hard opinions yet. But I sure do have some very high first impressions. You guys know I have been working hard to become proficient at ELR past a mile for quite some time. Well my success so far with the LRKM is pretty pleasing. A first round hit at 2422 and follow ups to boot with two shooters on a 1 moa target did my sole good. So I guess, I will enjoy this rifle for a while. And so far I am a die hard 338 guy. But my eyes are open to what could be going on. I am just not ready to start over just for a larger bullet splash. At this point I guess I have what I want and need. For now anyway.

Jeff
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  #163  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:58 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

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Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Not sure if Shawn will or not. I know he is very busy producing 338's right now.

I am not far enough into my new 338 to draw hard opinions yet. But I sure do have some very high first impressions. You guys know I have been working hard to become proficient at ELR past a mile for quite some time. Well my success so far with the LRKM is pretty pleasing. A first round hit at 2422 and follow ups to boot with two shooters on a 1 moa target did my sole good. So I guess, I will enjoy this rifle for a while. And so far I am a die hard 338 guy. But my eyes are open to what could be going on. I am just not ready to start over just for a larger bullet splash. At this point I guess I have what I want and need. For now anyway.

Jeff
Are you going to bring it to the shoot Sat? Sure would love to see it.
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  #164  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:03 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
Are you going to bring it to the shoot Sat? Sure would love to see it.
Yes Sir, and you can have a test drive. I hope to knock that 2" thick plate off its hanger at 1010 yds LOL...

Jeff
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  #165  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:10 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

I dont know Jeff, 3300 ft lbs isnt very much.... I cant wait to see it in person.
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  #166  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:13 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

[QUOTE=MontanaRifleman;837578]

Kirby,

Not debating, but curious why your not thrilled about mono's for hunting. I agree that in the smaller cals, the cup and core bullets are more efficient when it comes to high BC design and construction and for the most part, bullets like the Berger VLDs are very effective game killers. That said they may not be perfect in every situation.

No bullet is perfect in all situations, just a fact of life. Cup jacketed bullets designed for long range shooting are not the best for close range hard impacts. Solid copper or alloy bullets are not the best when velocity drops off at longer ranged and with soft impacts.

Now when it comes to the larger cals, the monos start to become more ballisitcally efficient compared to the cup core bullets. I think it is because the mono can be turned/formed to any shape that will fly and stabilize? I think that is much more challenging for the cup and core bullet makers to do in the larger cals? Probably why we see 350 gr SMKs vs 425 gr CEB's? Just speculating.

From a rifle builders point of view, the monos can be a pain in the rear. This is because they are very dependant on the barrels bore diameter for consistant and accurate performance. Some bore diameters are much better then others for solid bullets and they should be matched up as close as possible for best results. In spite of what some think, barrels vary in bore diameter, even from same maker, some up to as much as 2 thou difference in bore diameter. This can result in dramatic differences in performance with the monos, one bore diameter may shoot them lights out, another may spray them like shot patterns. Can just be frustrating as a rifle builder trying to explain this to customers.

The cup jacketed bullets have a built in feature to coup with varying bore diameters, they are soft and they bump up under pressure to seal the bore. This is why a good cup jacketed bullet will on average shoot more consistently over a wider range of bore diameters, a bonus for a rifle builder. I personally HATE building a rifle to be used for a single bullet, just asking for Murphy to come in and make you look bad. I build rifles perhaps INTENDED to shoot a specific bullet but with the ability to shoot a wide range of bullets so that there is a very high likelihood that I will find a combo that will satisfy my 1/2 moa accuracy potential without ALOT of fuss and bench work.

Just for example, the 300 gr SMK has lost a bit of its sex appeal these days, but of the several hundred large 338 magnums I have made over the past many years, I have only had three rifles that would not shoot this bullet to my 1/2 moa requirements and those two barrels had heat treating issues, were retreated and shot lights out.

To be fair, I have yet to have any of my 338 AX or 338 AM rifles not shoot the 265 gr Barnes TTSX bullets extremely well so can not complain about them either.

Back to the hunting... Joel Russo and company did some elk hunting/testing with some 338 CEB's a while back and reported killing "a ton of elk from 500-1300 yds". So it seems that the CEB's had both the accuracy and terminal capability to perform well. When asked how well did they kill in comparison to the 300 SMK? he replied, "no better or worse". That goes back to what you said about there being no real advantage for the price... and I agree... if there is no advantage. If for some reason, they just shot better at LR than anything else less expensive, I suppose that would be a reason. Plus, I've always been in the more controlled expansion crowd.

NO BETTER NO WORSE, my point exactly. The 300 gr SMK out of my 338 AX or 338 AM will have a BC in the .800 to .820 at my elevation. And they just work and are relatively cheap compared to the solids. Compared to the CE bullets, they are dirt cheap and there is no real ballistic advantage with the CE bullets, why not put invest the money into more bullets and powder or accessary gear.

Then you look at the Berger 300 gr and you get a good boost in BC at very similar prices. I have had some complaints with the Berger when big game was taken at ranges much over 800 yards and when muzzle velocity was below 2800 fps with some pencil holing through game animals. That HAS NOT been an issue in my 338 AM with its extra +500 fps at the muzzle.

Sooo... as we move up the ladder to the 375 CheyTac, from where I'm sitting, the clear advantage in all areas goes to the monos, or at least these CEB 425's that Greg is shooting. The way those pills were smacking the rocks way over on the other mountain... If an elk would have been on the receiving end... well, you get it

Ya for the time being, ballistically, the solids have the advantage. That said, I am not convinced that the monos are the clear winners yet. The reason I say that is because if you look at the bigger calibers, such as 50 cal, the aluminum tipped 750 gr A-Max will run with any solid bullet of the same weight. An aluminum tipped 350 to 375 gr cup jacketed 375 cal bullet would run right with the 425 as far as BC but again would have a dramatic velocity advantage. I know this because of my work with the prototype 338 cal bullets from Wildcat Bullets back when it was owned by Richard Graves. We were playing with a 265 gr AT RBBT that was putting down BC numbers in the .920 range and with the ability to drive them to 3550 fps comfortably, there was nothing out there that would run with them even out to 3000 yards. Now we just need a bullet maker that wants to take the time to make a cup jacketed bullet with a good aluminum tip. That gives us the bullet length we need, the aggressive ogive we need, consistant over a wide range of bore diameters, high velocity and great expansion at long range. They are not here yet but they will come with time.
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  #167  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:15 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Yes Sir, and you can have a test drive. I hope to knock that 2" thick plate off its hanger at 1010 yds LOL...

Jeff
Cool!!! That will be worth the price of gas my old F-250 eats

Would love to see that ACTAR as well!
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  #168  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:15 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

Broz, shooting past 2000 yards do you have a spotter, or are you spotting your own shots from the scope?
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