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My New Defensive Edge LRKM

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  #155  
Unread 08-11-2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
I have just never been dramatically impressed with the CE bullets. Nothing really wrong with them but the ones I have tested in 7mm, 30 cal and 338 really left me wondering one major question after I developed loads for them, what am I really gaining here????

The reason I ask that is three fold.

1. Mainly cost. I can get conventional cup jacketed lead core bullets that are more consistant over a wider range of bore diameters and more forgiving in seating depth and load and do so with prices that are 1/3 to 1/2 less then the CE bullets.

2. They can be a real pain in the rear to find that sweet spot in seating depth, in fact a few rifles I have never found it and gave up.

3. Terminal performance. There is no doubt that at closer ranges they do extremely well but at long range, like the TSX, TTSX and LRX bullets from Barnes, they thrive on speed but as range increases, terminal performance can really drop off as with all solid copper or alloy designs, even HP designs.

Now in the 375, they may have some merit simply because of the lack of options out there but for all other calibers, I see them as an option but just can not justify the extreme cost over more conventional bullets which will offer at least as high of a BC, be more forgiving from bore to bore and generally better terminally over a wider range of distances. Just my throughts.

Again, have no problem with these bullets, just do not really see the justification to charge what they do for what you get in most calibers.
Kirby.

I have never used the smaller calibre CE projectiles, like you I can't really see the point, the conventional projectiles do an alround fantastic job, there is basically one to suit nearly every possible situation.

The bigger calibres 375 & 416 for instance the jacketed projectiles are limited.

The ones I have tried were left wanting in either speed, BC, accuracy, terminal performance or a combination of all four.

The speed, BC & accuracy achieved by the mono projectiles in the bigger calibres, at this stage, is basically impossible for a conventional projectile to equal or better.

Terminal performance of the monos is getting better with the introduction of the tipped Lazer projectiles & alike.

I have had little to no problem with seating depths with the CE, GSC, Lehigh & Predator projectiles I have used.

The 414 depth I used was the first one I tried & it shot lights out straight away.

My own experience has shown the tipped projectile lose a little BC over their untipped siblings, this is with my custom tipped ones, terminal performance goes through the roof & accuracy isn't degraded.

Basically without the mono projectiles the bigger calibres have very little if anything to offer over a big 338, some would say they still don't.

I will happily pay a premium for a projectile that allows me to shoot moa or better well beyond a mile

Sorry for wandering off track a little Broz.
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  •   #156  
    Unread 08-11-2013, 05:01 PM
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    Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

    Yes I to apologize for the hijack, back on topic,

    Sorry Broz.
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    Kirby Allen(50)

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      #157  
    Unread 08-11-2013, 05:36 PM
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    Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

    Thanks for the discussion guys. Like was said earlier, this does feel like the good ole days here. I love it. Thanks again. Enjoying this thread.
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      #158  
    Unread 08-12-2013, 04:51 PM
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    Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

    Off Topic? Not as far as I am concerned. I started this about my ELR rifle. Any ELR discussion is good as far as I am concerned. Especially when it involves people in the know and not just keyboard warriors. I am enjoying the posts so take it where ever you like. As soon as I have more on the LRKM in 338 Terminator +P I will add it.

    Besides Kirby, your results with the solids are the same as mine, so it is good to know my results are not alone here. That said I have not used the solids in 338's and up.

    Jeff
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      #159  
    Unread 08-12-2013, 05:25 PM
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    Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

    I have not tested them in the 375 as much as I should be but I just am not a fan of a solid bullet for extreme range hunting. Now, slappin steel or rocks, certainly but just have a hard time using them for big game hunting.

    Guess I should give the CE bullets a better go in 375 but right now have to many irons in the fire, namely, customer projects that need to get out that are far overdue!!!

    Wintertime used to be my big R&D time but now it just seems like because of one delay or another, its just constant all year round!!! You know what waiting for a rifle is like though so just preaching to the choir here......

    Keep us posted, should have my 338 Raptor up and running with in a week or two and will be curious to compare results with your beast!!!
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    Kirby Allen(50)

    Allen Precision Shooting
    Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

    Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

    Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

    allenmagnum@gmail.com
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      #160  
    Unread 08-12-2013, 06:28 PM
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    Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

    Jeff,

    Thanks for letting this discussion continue. I am having a very enjoyable and interesting read!

    Kirby,

    Not debating, but curious why your not thrilled about mono's for hunting. I agree that in the smaller cals, the cup and core bullets are more efficient when it comes to high BC design and construction and for the most part, bullets like the Berger VLDs are very effective game killers. That said they may not be perfect in every situation.

    Now when it comes to the larger cals, the monos start to become more ballisitcally efficient compared to the cup core bullets. I think it is because the mono can be turned/formed to any shape that will fly and stabilize? I think that is much more challenging for the cup and core bullet makers to do in the larger cals? Probably why we see 350 gr SMKs vs 425 gr CEB's? Just speculating.

    Back to the hunting... Joel Russo and company did some elk hunting/testing with some 338 CEB's a while back and reported killing "a ton of elk from 500-1300 yds". So it seems that the CEB's had both the accuracy and terminal capability to perform well. When asked how well did they kill in comparison to the 300 SMK? he replied, "no better or worse". That goes back to what you said about there being no real advantage for the price... and I agree... if there is no advantage. If for some reason, they just shot better at LR than anything else less expensive, I suppose that would be a reason. Plus, I've always been in the more controlled expansion crowd.

    Sooo... as we move up the ladder to the 375 CheyTac, from where I'm sitting, the clear advantage in all areas goes to the monos, or at least these CEB 425's that Greg is shooting. The way those pills were smacking the rocks way over on the other mountain... If an elk would have been on the receiving end... well, you get it

    Back to the LRKM... Jeff you suppose Shawn will chamber a super duper 375 in the LRKM someday? How bout a Raptor Kirby?
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      #161  
    Unread 08-12-2013, 07:43 PM
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    Re: My New Defensive Edge LRKM

    With regards to the Mono V's Cup and Lead core bullets for ELR.
    I have been testing a number of bullets in .375 calibre at 1150 and 2350 yards, all fired with the same MV of 3070 fps as near as possible.

    At 1150 they appear to have BC's in this order from best to worst.
    357gn Rocky Mountain
    350gn CEB
    350gn Rocky Mountain
    350gn SMK
    320gn CEB.

    At 2350 yards I have only tested the 375 Rocky, 350 CEB and 350gn SMK. This was the order of performance.
    350gn CEB
    357gn Rocky Mountain Bullet
    350gn SMK.

    Some BC depredation was apparent with the 350gn SMK and 375gn Rocky, but the 350gn CEB seem to follow the G7 profile to 2350 yards with scarry predictability.

    No data on game yet. Having too much fun and great success with the 250gn Berger Elite out of my light weight .338 RUM. Now that is a bullet that would be very interesting in the .338 LRKM at warp speed.
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