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How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

 
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:51 PM
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How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

I realize none of us have had one of these in our hands yet. But from what you see and from what you have read what would you change about this scope? Please lets leave price out of the opinions. I feel they took it pretty easy on us with the slated MSRP of around $2350.

Here is a link for those that have not read about it yet.

ATACR | Nightforce Optics, Inc.

I look at the ATACR as a serious boost for us ELR shooters. This was surely what Nightforce was targeting with this scope. I have had a few conversations with Shawn Carlock and we both share the excitement of a little more top end power, ED glass, and the 120 MOA of elevation. But!!!! Why the thicker reticle?? That is surely not what we as ELR shooters will prefer. Four inches plus of target cover at 3000 yards is not my idea of a precise hold.

I just had a very informative conversation with Mark Benelli at Nightforce about the new ATACR and BEAST. The first thing I wanted to discuss was the possibility of a thinner reticle choice for the ATACR in MOA. The answer, it is not slated at this time, but Mark being an ELR shooter welcomed my views, and agreed, that a thinner reticle would be more desirable for ELR. He also shared his experience from using the MOAR reticle this past season. He says it may not be as bad as I expect, but did admit in a recent match he could not center the reticle on a 1" orange dot at 400 yards. It simply blocked the dot out. He also stated he was going to go back to the RP-R1 to see for sure if the R1 was indeed better for his needs. We also talked about the glass the new line will be sporting. In an independent study the BEAST was tested by a independent German firm and the BEAST was given a 10 for clarity and brightness and definition. The S&B PM2 in 25x was given an 8+. So this glass will be something to behold I would say. The ATACR does not sport this same glass as the BEAST, but does have new ED glass. Mark says although he has never seen fault with the glass we know so well in the NXS ( I agree), the ED glass in the ATACR is very noticeably better especially for definition and depth perception. Also the ED glass gave a better image all the way across the field of view even at the edges. I hang on to hope that added definition will make up for some of the target picture we loose with the thicker cross hairs, and will aid in precise hold at ELR. We talked about a new MOAR option. The MOAR "Thin" with .062 sub-tensions. Although this is not slated at this time I got the feeling if enough of us requested it, it could one day become a reality. That would be the icing on the cake for the new ATACR as far as I can tell form this point anyway.

My main interest was in the ATACR since I only want Second Focal Plane , so I asked about the added 20 moa of elevation. He told me they were actually getting a little over 120 in most units. But the advertised and target adjustment was 120 moa. I found that very good news.

Mark was very helpful and we talked for 35 minutes. Never once did I feel I didn't have his full attention and he was in no hurry to get me off the phone even though I did whine a bit about the reticle choice for the ATACR. He represents his company well and a great company it is that has time and interest in every customers questions and requests.

As indicated in another thread I have on here.
Is The 5.5~22 Nightforce my only choice?

This was my wish list.

* Minimum top end power of 22 x but a little more would be nice.
* Sub-tensions to be no wider that .070 ( Like the NP-R1 thinner would be fine)
* Second Focal Plane only (tried the FFP and hated them)
* .25 MOA Turrets and MOA Reticle (MOA only for me)
* Minimum of 100 MOA total elevation ( more would be great!!)
* A zero stop of some sort is something I really like.
* Price not to exceed $2500 or so.

As seen above, they pretty much gave me all I asked for. But, I still feel the need to whine a little about the sub-tension thickness. I have spoken for one of the current ATACR's as soon as we can get one, and will be waiting to replace either the scope (with another ATACR) or swap out the reticle for a thinner option if ever offered.


Jeff
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:07 PM
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Re: How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

I was salivating all over my computer this weekend when I saw the new Nightforce optics, I think the MOAR "thin" would be awesome cause over all the reticle looks great just a little chunky. Even then that thing will be outstanding on a LRKM!!!!

Remember a time when 2000 yards was almost unreal and now your worried about how much the reticle will cover at 3000 yards, man how things change, kinda cool though!!!! Maybe I'll be able to break into some Nightforce glass when guys upgrade to these newer one's
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:42 PM
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Re: How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

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Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
I was salivating all over my computer this weekend when I saw the new Nightforce optics, I think the MOAR "thin" would be awesome cause over all the reticle looks great just a little chunky. Even then that thing will be outstanding on a LRKM!!!!

Remember a time when 2000 yards was almost unreal and now your worried about how much the reticle will cover at 3000 yards, man how things change, kinda cool though!!!! Maybe I'll be able to break into some Nightforce glass when guys upgrade to these newer one's
I suggested another option of just decreasing the floating cross in the center of the MOAR to 1/2 the thickness of what it is now. That would give us the finer aiming point we all seem to like along with thicker lines around it for those that want quicker target acquisition. Even though all thinner would be my first choice, this would be a compromise I would be happy with.

Jeff
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:36 PM
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Re: How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

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Originally Posted by Broz View Post
I suggested another option of just decreasing the floating cross in the center of the MOAR to 1/2 the thickness of what it is now. That would give us the finer aiming point we all seem to like along with thicker lines around it for those that want quicker target acquisition. Even though all thinner would be my first choice, this would be a compromise I would be happy with.

Jeff
This I think would be an ideal choice I have an MOAR on my current long range rifle I choose it as strictly a hunting reticle. I have only used it out to 1200yds thus far and it works for me. That said I would also prefer thiner floating cross beyond the range I'm at now. I'm in process of another build when it is finished hopefully this change will have been made and I can top it off with one in this model, other wise an npr1 it will be.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:35 PM
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Re: How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

Jeff,

Thanks for sharing the info you received from NF regarding their new optics. Good info. I want to see a BEAST even more now with that glass report!

The problem ELR shooters are up against is that they are on the cutting edge of LR shooting and that comes with a very small market share. I am afraid you are going to have a hard time finding exactly what you want because it doesn't fit any regular Joe hunter's needs and isn't even necessary for LR hunting. The reality is that NF was the original thin reticle manf. and they have pretty much moved away from it in everything but the BR models for the last few years. There were lots of complaints about the thin reticles in the beginning, not because they didn't offer fine aim points but because guys continually lost them in dark or timbered hunting conditions. From a business standpoint I am sure it just doesn't make sense.

The harder I think about adding an LRKM to my collection the more this issue is going to have to be addressed by me as well. I wonder if they would think on one of your suggestions, MOAR "thin" or a thinner center crosshair, if you were able to start a ELR fund from all the ELR shooters interested that would fund the creation of the new reticle. Maybe they would be more up for it if they knew they didn't have to front the money for the reticle on such a small market share condition. Of course I don't know what the cost would be for such an undertaking with NF. I do know the cost of a reticle creation with US Optics and Premier ( back in the day when they did them) ran from $600-1200 for the creation of it. There would be other costs too I am sure as NF isn't the specialty manufacturer that US or Premier is/was. It would also go to show the kind of interest in the reticle there is as well as the dedication to NF products. That alone may help move the process forward.

Just thinking out loud.

Scot E.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:57 PM
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Re: How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

Well put Scot E we will just have to hope NF will offer a thick and thin option I know I'm crossing my fingers.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:05 PM
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Re: How Could We Improve the NEW A.T.A.C.R. From Nightforce

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot E View Post
Jeff,
The problem ELR shooters are up against is that they are on the cutting edge of LR shooting and that comes with a very small market share. I am afraid you are going to have a hard time finding exactly what you want because it doesn't fit any regular Joe hunter's needs and isn't even necessary for LR hunting. The reality is that NF was the original thin reticle manf. and they have pretty much moved away from it in everything but the BR models for the last few years. There were lots of complaints about the thin reticles in the beginning, not because they didn't offer fine aim points but because guys continually lost them in dark or timbered hunting conditions. From a business standpoint I am sure it just doesn't make sense.
Scot E.
Scott we did discuss the Market for such a reticle and I understand what you are saying. But, if this is the case, how do you explain why the thinner NP-R1 has been their best selling reticle?

Also you stated "and isn't even necessary for LR hunting." Well, please remember we are talking in the ELR forum. I feel your statement is directly related to distance. Maybe not necessary for lesser distances, but surely you agree better for the longer shots past 1000. And also lets remember that the 120 moa of elevation was surely not refined for shots at 1000 or less where 20 to 25 moa would be a normal dial up. Even if a "0" cant base was used (and who would do that?) the 60 MOA that would be available from the ATACR would get a standard 338 Lapua with a 300 Berger to a mile. Now who wants a thick reticle for that type of shooting? I know of no dark timbers that will support a mile shot. I also feel that most responsible long range hunters will be requiring the best of condition for a shot at these distances and loosing the reticle in fading light would not be an issue. That said the RP-R1 has served me well for years of hunting during legal hours and truly it is not that thin of a reticle, it covers a nice 3/4" line at only 1000 yards.

Jeff
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