Originally Posted by Swamphunter
I kill and eat too, I just don't want to wipe any animal off the face of the earth. Be happy you have the ability to hunt wolves and control their numbers, we don't have that option here in Minnesota. Yet we still kill deer, go figure.
You misunderstand again. The folks living in the Rocky Mtn. west don't have the 'ability to hunt wolves and control their numbers' as you say. Have you read what has been posted here?
Have you realized yet the difference between the wolves that were here, your wolves and the wolves that were introduced?
I am starting to very much question your desire to understand this issue.
You are causing quite a bit of trouble on a site you just joined and I'm afraid your reputation here is already in question just due to the uneducated statements you are making. Do you realize this?
Multiple PhD'ed biologists that specialize in wolves, some with experience well beyond the bounds of North America, clearly say that that the amount of wolves that are being allowed to be killed each year won't do a thing to decrease the wolf population or help the elk population. Dr. Val Geist, immigrant to Canada from the Soviet Union, where wolf attacks on humans are common, relates the need to kill 50% of the wolf population (specifically the Canadian Grey Wolf in the Rocky Mtn. West) every year for years to be able to put enough of a dent in wolf populations there to start to help the elk populations to rebound. Attaining this kind of yearly wolf kill is impossible through typical hunting means. That is why Alaska routinely helicopter guns wolves and why Alberta is now starting a process to do the same. Helicopter gunning and poisioning have been the most successful ways to kill wolves.
You are sorely mistaken when you are concerned about wiping wolves off the face of the earth. Virtually no one is saying we should do that and, I for one, believe it to be impossible. Wolves have way to high of a reproductive rate and are way too efficient killers and travelers for that to happen--at least it would be very difficult to do and it would never be allowed. Wolves have never been scientifically endangered in North American, only politically endangered to those who are anti-hunting, anti-second ammendment, anti-ranching and anti-grazing on federal lands and who do not understand the simple fact that the money raised through regulated hunting through excise taxes, licences, etc. is what has given us the most abundant wildlife (of all kinds) and the best wildlife system on the planet AND then, ironically, payed (though the money was stolen from the states and ultimately hunters by the USFWS after congress denied them the money to introduce wolves) for the wolves to be introduced to the Rocky Mtn. west.
A simple reproductive comparison between elk and wolves might shed some light on this. A cow elk has typically one calf a year--maybe twins. A female wolf typically will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-7 pups a litter with a 63 day gestation period. Mortality calf/pup rates are similar. Contrary to popular teaching, not just the 'alpha' female breeds. This, I understand, is largely dependent on abundance of prey species. More prey species, the more females are bred. There's plenty, though declining, numbers of prey in the Rocky Mtn. west. The wolf will outpace the elk greatly in this population race.
A number that everyone agrees on is that a single wolf will eat 23 elk a year--Alaska, Canada and the lower 48 folks all agree on this number. Of course, this does not include the number of elk that are killed for wanton lust of killing as dogs in general and certainly packs of dogs in general are known to do--I've seen this with my own eyes and there are tremendous available examples to back this up. Spend some time at: Home
. Wolves are no different. They kill much more than they need, so don't buy into that 'weak and sick' argument. That's also been demonstrated to be false many times in the Rocky Mtn. west.
There are numerous eyewitness accounts of wolves going through and killing multiple calves in minutes and not eating any of them. There are many available pictures of cow elk with their fetuses eaten out of them--some of the cows still alive. The same is true for mature bull elk--killed and just a bite or two, literally, taken. This wolf is a wanton, wasteful killer and they kill many more than the accepted number of 23 elk each year they actually eat.
Are you concerned about the elk, or just the wolf? Why is there so much national concern about the wolf and so little about the elk they are eating up at an alarming pace? Could it be due to lopsided media coverage...? Hmmm...?
You need to consider carefully where your philosophy on this issue is coming from. Where have you gleaned the information you speak to? Do you feel as though you've heard the real evidence clearly from all sides of the issue and have made a good decision on where to come down on this issue.
Since these wolves act and eat and efficiently kill and reproduce so fast and travel so fast like this, they are a tremendous threat to elk herds in the Rocky Mtn. west, as is being born out now. The only way to 'control their numbers', as you say, is to institute a helicopter gunning and poisoning program in the Rocky Mtn. west.
I would urge everyone to get a copy of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Alaskas-Wolf-Man-Wilderness-Adventures/dp/1575100479 --'Alaskas Wolf Man'.
and, this video: Crying Wolf
The picture will start to come together. Alaska is nearly always fighting the wolf. Alberta is having to start to do the same.
Ironically, the precursor to the USFWS was the agency that killed wolves in the west by the thousands in the early 1900's.
So, you see, we don't have a way to control wolves. Hunting them at the numbers allowed right now will do nothing to control wolf populations or help elk.