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Wolves gone wild.

 
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2011, 11:38 AM
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Re: Wolves gone wild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkoholic307 View Post
I have read some of your other posts on the wolf issue and it seems to me, that you would rather see 30 wolves than 30 deer. You won't find others who have the same opinion as you here. If you're not a 'bloodthirsty barbarian', then maybe this isn't the forum for you.
No I would not rather see 30 wolves than 30 deer, I am an avid hunter.
I just am against trying to wipe an animal species off the face of the earth.
like I have said reapeatedly, we have more wolves in Minnesota than you western states all have put together, and yet we still manage to kill deer.
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:00 PM
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Re: Wolves gone wild.

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Originally Posted by rooster740 View Post
I feel that this is getting close to the "beaten to death" status, but I would like to ad that there are 200 elk within 1 mile of my house 400 more within 10 miles of my house and 1000+ elk within 20 miles of my house. There are 10-15 deer, depending on the day, that live in my yard, 200ish deer that live within 1 mile of my house. I live 100 yards from the highway to Gardiner so I am not in the heart of elk wintering range.
DOWN LOW NEAR CIVILIZATION IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT THE POOR ELK AND DEER CAN STAY ALIVE! To anybody who does not know the situation it appears that we are over run with elk and deer.
The mountains are comparably empty of game this time of year, and there is grass waist high everywhere.
How do you manage this situation? You give the lower 2/3 of Montana a quota of 18 wolves is how the great state of Montana does it.

I am not a wolf hater, I think they deserve a place on this Earth! On my wall, in the zoo, and 6 or 7 wolves to roam around the great Jellystone Park
That is what all the deer have done here too, they have adapted and live closer to people where the wolves are less likely to be. We have been dealing with this issue for years and years years. Like I have said, be happy you have a hunting season to control the wolf numbers, we have no such luxury. We have had the wolves delisted twice in the last ten years only to have humane society file lawsuits and get them back on the endangered list.
All this when the revovery number was 1500. That goal was met in the early 80's if my memory serves me, and here it is 2011 and they are still "endangered"?????
And don't make stupid threats online, any one can do that. If you lived next door I might have to take it seriously.
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  #24  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:02 PM
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Re: Wolves gone wild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkoholic307 View Post
I have read some of your other posts on the wolf issue and it seems to me, that you would rather see 30 wolves than 30 deer. You won't find others who have the same opinion as you here. If you're not a 'bloodthirsty barbarian', then maybe this isn't the forum for you.
Of course you took that out of context read the whole post
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  #25  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:06 PM
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Re: Wolves gone wild.

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Originally Posted by Swamphunter View Post
I kill and eat too, I just don't want to wipe any animal off the face of the earth. Be happy you have the ability to hunt wolves and control their numbers, we don't have that option here in Minnesota. Yet we still kill deer, go figure.
You misunderstand again. The folks living in the Rocky Mtn. west don't have the 'ability to hunt wolves and control their numbers' as you say. Have you read what has been posted here?

Have you realized yet the difference between the wolves that were here, your wolves and the wolves that were introduced?

I am starting to very much question your desire to understand this issue.

You are causing quite a bit of trouble on a site you just joined and I'm afraid your reputation here is already in question just due to the uneducated statements you are making. Do you realize this?

Multiple PhD'ed biologists that specialize in wolves, some with experience well beyond the bounds of North America, clearly say that that the amount of wolves that are being allowed to be killed each year won't do a thing to decrease the wolf population or help the elk population. Dr. Val Geist, immigrant to Canada from the Soviet Union, where wolf attacks on humans are common, relates the need to kill 50% of the wolf population (specifically the Canadian Grey Wolf in the Rocky Mtn. West) every year for years to be able to put enough of a dent in wolf populations there to start to help the elk populations to rebound. Attaining this kind of yearly wolf kill is impossible through typical hunting means. That is why Alaska routinely helicopter guns wolves and why Alberta is now starting a process to do the same. Helicopter gunning and poisioning have been the most successful ways to kill wolves.

You are sorely mistaken when you are concerned about wiping wolves off the face of the earth. Virtually no one is saying we should do that and, I for one, believe it to be impossible. Wolves have way to high of a reproductive rate and are way too efficient killers and travelers for that to happen--at least it would be very difficult to do and it would never be allowed. Wolves have never been scientifically endangered in North American, only politically endangered to those who are anti-hunting, anti-second ammendment, anti-ranching and anti-grazing on federal lands and who do not understand the simple fact that the money raised through regulated hunting through excise taxes, licences, etc. is what has given us the most abundant wildlife (of all kinds) and the best wildlife system on the planet AND then, ironically, payed (though the money was stolen from the states and ultimately hunters by the USFWS after congress denied them the money to introduce wolves) for the wolves to be introduced to the Rocky Mtn. west.

A simple reproductive comparison between elk and wolves might shed some light on this. A cow elk has typically one calf a year--maybe twins. A female wolf typically will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-7 pups a litter with a 63 day gestation period. Mortality calf/pup rates are similar. Contrary to popular teaching, not just the 'alpha' female breeds. This, I understand, is largely dependent on abundance of prey species. More prey species, the more females are bred. There's plenty, though declining, numbers of prey in the Rocky Mtn. west. The wolf will outpace the elk greatly in this population race.

A number that everyone agrees on is that a single wolf will eat 23 elk a year--Alaska, Canada and the lower 48 folks all agree on this number. Of course, this does not include the number of elk that are killed for wanton lust of killing as dogs in general and certainly packs of dogs in general are known to do--I've seen this with my own eyes and there are tremendous available examples to back this up. Spend some time at: Home. Wolves are no different. They kill much more than they need, so don't buy into that 'weak and sick' argument. That's also been demonstrated to be false many times in the Rocky Mtn. west.

There are numerous eyewitness accounts of wolves going through and killing multiple calves in minutes and not eating any of them. There are many available pictures of cow elk with their fetuses eaten out of them--some of the cows still alive. The same is true for mature bull elk--killed and just a bite or two, literally, taken. This wolf is a wanton, wasteful killer and they kill many more than the accepted number of 23 elk each year they actually eat.

Are you concerned about the elk, or just the wolf? Why is there so much national concern about the wolf and so little about the elk they are eating up at an alarming pace? Could it be due to lopsided media coverage...? Hmmm...?

You need to consider carefully where your philosophy on this issue is coming from. Where have you gleaned the information you speak to? Do you feel as though you've heard the real evidence clearly from all sides of the issue and have made a good decision on where to come down on this issue.

Since these wolves act and eat and efficiently kill and reproduce so fast and travel so fast like this, they are a tremendous threat to elk herds in the Rocky Mtn. west, as is being born out now. The only way to 'control their numbers', as you say, is to institute a helicopter gunning and poisoning program in the Rocky Mtn. west.

I would urge everyone to get a copy of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Alaskas-Wolf-Man-Wilderness-Adventures/dp/1575100479 --'Alaskas Wolf Man'.

and, this video: Crying Wolf The picture will start to come together. Alaska is nearly always fighting the wolf. Alberta is having to start to do the same.

Ironically, the precursor to the USFWS was the agency that killed wolves in the west by the thousands in the early 1900's.

So, you see, we don't have a way to control wolves. Hunting them at the numbers allowed right now will do nothing to control wolf populations or help elk.
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Last edited by jmden; 12-28-2011 at 02:18 PM. Reason: got an important word wrong...
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  #26  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:10 PM
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Posts: 31
Re: Wolves gone wild.

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Originally Posted by royinidaho View Post
I meant what I implied!

Consider your face glove slapped.

Next time you head to Yellowstone, come across I-80 (vs I-90) there's a convenient spud cellar along I-15 we can go behind and settle this thing!

Tools of your choice.

Len, I apologize.

I'll be quiet now.
Like I said to the other guy that threatened me, if you lived next door I would have to take it seriously but since you do it anonymously it doesn't really mean anything
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:16 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OK
Posts: 2,145
Re: Wolves gone wild.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamphunter View Post
No I would not rather see 30 wolves than 30 deer, I am an avid hunter.
I just am against trying to wipe an animal species off the face of the earth.
like I have said reapeatedly, we have more wolves in Minnesota than you western states all have put together, and yet we still manage to kill deer.
You talk pretty smart yet how do we know you even hunt in an area with wolves? You could be in southern MN, where there are none or a infrequent visitor.

I will tell you this is not the case in northern WI. in the 2010 season there were no/limited doe tags in the northern 1/3rd of the state, this should mean that those does will drop fawns for 2011. 2010 nubbin bucks will grow antlers the following year to be huntable bucks, since none should be shot with no antlerless tags.

Well 2011 rolls around and the buck kill in that part of the state was down 20%, as high as 29% in some units.
Our winter last year was relativly mild last year and the DNR is scratching there heads as our weather this year during the 9 day season was ideal.

The last 3 years the deer kill in WI is down over 150,000 to 200,000 vs the previous 5 seasons. Some of this is overharvest but where the hunters kill is really dropping is in wolf range.

Take a moderatly severe winter and wolves harassing game and disrupting feed paterns, now these stressed animals sucome to winter kill when they normally (minus the wolf) would survive, no one ever counts these numbers that are directly related to the wolf being on the landscape.

Personally, Every one of the mutts should be wiped from the landscape in the lower 48.
There not endangered in Canada and Alaska
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:19 PM
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Re: Wolves gone wild.

its very obvious you are out of touch with reality swamphunter. Wolves are the blood thirsty out of control ones here. they run around, kill an elk when they get hungry next time they are hungry the kill again not go back to the last kill. you get a few hundred wolves in a place where there are 10,000 elk and its doesnt take long and there are none left. I dont know what you guys do in minnesota or how many deer or wolves you have but the FACT is the western states have many fewer elk deer and moose and the reason is wolves, the eco-system was fine with out them, what good can come from having them here? They have them in alaska and that works out fine its huge wide open country with lots of game. But here in our little corner the wolves have devastated everything we have. So keep your liberal, back east, tree huggin' ideas to yourself because quite frankly we dont care for what you have to say. Common sense and a little awareness is all it takes to see that 0 wolves is the best policy. People like you who try to run the country based on one general idea are what is wrong with this. the "but we have wolves in minnesota and alaska" argument holds about as much water as the pocket on my jeans, because thats minnesota and alaska, not wyoming, montana and idaho.
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