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Washington Wolf plan

 
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  #43  
Old 08-14-2012, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 695
Re: Washington Wolf plan

I ran into a retired Large Carnivore Biologist at work. His thoughts were interesting. By culling packs of wolves, it keeps the population artificially low in relation to it's food supply. Fewer wolves = greater food supply for the remaining ones = larger litters with more surviving juveniles. He thinks the only way to successfully drop the population is to let them breed until there's to many of them and let disease and limited food supply crash the population. According to him, the impact on the game herds in Idaho is completely predictable as the management practices perpetuate the artificially high and successful wolf population. Hunting and trapping won't crash the population. It was the use of poison baits that eventually got the large carnivore populations under control that since Nixon outlawed that in the 70's, that method is off the table.

I don't know. It's hard to do nothing. I do know that you can't hardly go anywhere without finding sign of wolves. That isn't likely to change in my lifetime. I've had wolves in my sights but never pulled the trigger (no tag). The occasional target of opportunity will do little to the overall population but could result in a very very bad experience from the Feds. Risk doesn't equal the reward. I don't blame the wolves. They're just being wolves. It's the people (Feds) that put them there I object to. Can't use poison baits on them either!

We'll see how well Washington's plan works.
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  #44  
Old 08-14-2012, 09:22 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Re: Washington Wolf plan

That Biologist sounds like a DIP!people like him put the DNR in a bad light with hunters.
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  #45  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:39 AM
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Re: Washington Wolf plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt77 View Post
That Biologist sounds like a DIP!people like him put the DNR in a bad light with hunters.
Maybe...

I've met a few biologists and most of them are avid hunters but I'm sure there's some who aren't.

According to him, it's all textbook and pretty basic. It's how we manage game herds. If you want a healthy game herd, hunt them so their numbers don't exceed the range. If you want to see the population crash, leave them alone. A classic example is the Kiabab Plateau deer herd in Arizona. Deer standing around everywhere until most of them dropped over dead. With canines, a similar scenario would be more devastating as they are particularly susceptible to disease. I asked him, so just how long does this all take? He said that once the populations are established, it all goes pretty fast. A few years and then CRASH. Game herds come back quickly because the forage has improved due to lack of grazing/browsing and elk overpopulation is controlled through hunting and not predation so wolf numbers stabilize on the low end. It may all be theory but after the first 2 or 3 years of hunting wolves, you won't be getting those easy looks anymore. Trapping... maybe but Washington is not a trapper friendly state.

I think you nailed it. Hunters won't tolerate doing nothing as to many wolves kill to few elk. Since most DNR's are funded by Sportsmen, public (hunter) pressure has a lot of sway. Also, since your game herds will no doubt be negatively impacted anyway, this means lost revenue for the DNR. Watch your game herds become old with very few calves. Wolf tag sales make up for lost revenue so I think you'll find the DNR to be very willing partner in controlled wolf hunts.
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  #46  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NW MT in a remote quiet area
Posts: 237
Re: Washington Wolf plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by HARPERC View Post
My sincere apologies. I try to be a good guest, I occasionally forget sitting in my living room, that I'm entering someone else's. My sense of humor is an acquired taste at best, likely more so in this medium

My apologies also, There are many out there here in Idaho, and Montana far more vehemently totally mad at fish & game Dept's than you can imagine. There have been some very heated and outrageous confrontations in both states. I am not in that crowd. But the wolf situation was not brought to US / WE the hunters and trappers in ID, MT, MN, WI, WA, WY and soon many others from far ranging natural movements and dispersal. It was forced upon us against our will and with OUR Tax dollars from Hunting and Fishing gear! I always value a predator or Fur-bearers fur value personally, have never hunted any of them out of prime fur season myself, except in doing control removal work in my past. I have been around long enough to see The Federal and State Professionals use M44's and Getter's, and other lethal methods no one uses any more. Unfortunately, The wolves are here to stay, We and our respective states will be paying dearly for the effects, that they Illegally introduced the Wolf with all of US / WE, never agreeing to it. I believe in my region, that Idaho is trying within the limits of federal guidelines and restrictions, to be doing as much as they can except for making more areas open to trapping and starting it a month earlier for better harvest. My region also has a natural roving population that travels to and from Montana, and likely soon to and from WA on a regular basis. Also at least ID allows snaring, MT is not!!! As for crossing state lines, It seems we need better coordination between states for this situation. Montana would likely work with Idaho, But I doubt any coordination with WA state in this, will happen before its way too late, or if ever. So we are all frustrated with the huge loss of our local game herds in North ID and Western Mt, and we get a little over excited sometimes at a computer when communicating / venting with like minded folks here. Our individual game Dept's will suffer from less license revenues and likely increase our costs to the individuals like us. There is no money in Wolf hides for incentive for the general public, they are hard to hunt, hard to trap and once they know you are after them, you may never see them or sign in the same spot again. So we will have to see how this all plays out in the years ahead. Hunt Em' and trap Em' Hard guys, its all we've got right now.
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  #47  
Old 08-14-2012, 07:00 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Re: Washington Wolf plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 338 View Post
Maybe...

I've met a few biologists and most of them are avid hunters but I'm sure there's some who aren't.

According to him, it's all textbook and pretty basic. It's how we manage game herds. If you want a healthy game herd, hunt them so their numbers don't exceed the range. If you want to see the population crash, leave them alone. A classic example is the Kiabab Plateau deer herd in Arizona. Deer standing around everywhere until most of them dropped over dead. With canines, a similar scenario would be more devastating as they are particularly susceptible to disease. I asked him, so just how long does this all take? He said that once the populations are established, it all goes pretty fast. A few years and then CRASH. Game herds come back quickly because the forage has improved due to lack of grazing/browsing and elk overpopulation is controlled through hunting and not predation so wolf numbers stabilize on the low end. It may all be theory but after the first 2 or 3 years of hunting wolves, you won't be getting those easy looks anymore. Trapping... maybe but Washington is not a trapper friendly state.

I think you nailed it. Hunters won't tolerate doing nothing as to many wolves kill to few elk. Since most DNR's are funded by Sportsmen, public (hunter) pressure has a lot of sway. Also, since your game herds will no doubt be negatively impacted anyway, this means lost revenue for the DNR. Watch your game herds become old with very few calves. Wolf tag sales make up for lost revenue so I think you'll find the DNR to be very willing partner in controlled wolf hunts.

I say let have a open season on the killer wolfs all though out the country.
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  #48  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 695
Re: Washington Wolf plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt77 View Post
I say let have a open season on the killer wolfs all though out the country.
I think I called it the wrong thing. In Idaho, in certain units, the season is open until a quota is met so you may eventually get your wish. In the mean time, come on over and practice on some of ours!
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  #49  
Old 08-15-2012, 07:14 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Re: Washington Wolf plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 338 View Post
I think I called it the wrong thing. In Idaho, in certain units, the season is open until a quota is met so you may eventually get your wish. In the mean time, come on over and practice on some of ours!

I always wanted to go there but with gas prices around 4.00 it dosent look like anytime soon.At lest we have WOLF hunting in Winsonsin and the Rep who set the 110.fee emailed me the price will be lower in 013! to reflex the prices out west what ever that means? 25.00 30.00?.
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