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RRA National Match

 
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:10 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 229
Re: RRA National Match

Woodnut,

I'll try to hit the high points.

1) The OP didn't make it known that he didn't intend to shoot service rifle competitions until after my post about the trigger weight. These are purpose built guns and there are much better choices if you are not going to compete. (more on that later).

2) You need to understand that I believe RRA builds good rifles. That is why I purchased 16 of them over the years for the state association and junior team. If I didn't think they were good, I would have bought another brand.

3) The triggers are good. I think they are the best factory trigger that is readily available. This is why RRA was chosen for the state association and junior program guns. It is also the trigger I recommend for someone on a budget. However, there is a reasonable chance that they will not last without tuning by someone who knows what he is doing. I say this because not less than 6 of the 16 rifles referenced above developed trigger issues. I have also seen many more on the firing line develop issues. I don't know why you haven't heard "complaints", perhaps it is because most people don't know what they are supposed to feel like. You cannot imagine the number of highpower shooters whose rifles I have been requested to shoot that were having trigger issues without their knowledge. They didn't realize they were having problems until they were given a rifle with a good trigger to try.

4) Complaints are relative things. I expect to have certain issues from factory rifles. Having to tune the trigger is one of them. This is not unique to the RRA. I am just stating a fact when I say the triggers have issues. It isn't a complaint. If you get one, send it to a pro and have it tuned and forget about it. Better yet, buy a lower without a trigger and install a Geisselle if you have a few extra bucks.

5) Barrels - Both the RRA and the WOA use Wilson barrels. I am pretty sure the WOA is better lapped, but I do know that it is better chambered. It is the difference between a factory chambering job and that done by a custom smith.

6) Sights. The RRA NM sights are usable. I have a few issues with them for competitive shooting. They are not true 1/4 x 1/4 MOA, you can move the rear sight by twisting it (it is under spring tension and hopefully it returns to zero), the rear hoods have non-standard threads and only come in .030" and .040" apertures, and the front sights are pinned and therefore not adjustable for windage. This is important when you are trying to center the scale on the back of the sight which is good to do when you are making adjustments for a rapidly changing wind. I ended up just painting a line on the sight when it was zeroed for wind, but it aggravates me that at least 1/3 are lined up this way.

In contrast, the WOA sights are true 1/4 MOA (I have checked them with a dial indicator), they ride up and down on pins like a match rifle sight, they come with 3 apertures in .038, .042 and .046 plus you can use WOA or CLE screw in inserts for other sizes, The front sight is windage adjustable (it even has a hex screw under the front sight to lock it). These upgrades are worth any extra price you may pay.

TxBroke,

Now that I know what you are looking to do with your rifle, I am going to suggest that the RRA NM rifle is not the best vehicle for your application. As stated before, the NM rifle is built to meet specific rules. For instance, it has a free float tube that is hidden under the handguard. Most other free float tubes are the handguard. Between the heavy barrel and the steel free float tube, the NM rifle is front heavy. Highpower shooters counteract this by filling the butt stock with lead. Not what you want to do with a rifle you may need to carry.

A better suggestion would be some sort of varmint upper. My personal preference would be a WOA. They have them in 18, 20, 24 and 26 inch barrel lengths. RRA and other manufacturers have similar uppers, but for the price, WOA is a step up in quality without much step up in price.

Any lower with the RRA NM or Geisselle trigger would be fine. If it is the RRA, have the trigger tuned.

If you are thinking about an AR, get one. You will really enjoy its accuracy and versatility.

Dan
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  #9  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:31 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: West Texas
Posts: 17
Re: RRA National Match

Thanks for the advice, I have not considered the extra weight, will check out your suggestions.
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:17 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: roanoke,va.
Posts: 235
Re: RRA National Match

TxBroke, I stand by what I said; check with your friends, dealers and forums for guidance. Surely there's several guys in a shooting club who own ARs who would gladly give you help through their experience. And I didn't say you said anything about RR's 1 of three; only addressing DZelenka.
About your experience with the military M16. May I take this time to say a hardy "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO AMERICA !" It is most appreciated by this guy. And now, I will say the AR15s and 10s are only basically like those you used. There's a lot of configurations and calibers. Don't rush buying one. In all probability though, you'll wind up buying more than one ! Enjoy the search and let me know what you get; if it's not too long out. Take care, and thanks again for helping keep America strong and free !
Charles
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2011, 06:30 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: West Texas
Posts: 17
Re: RRA National Match

Will buy an AR in next 2 weeks, I am going to check the local gun shops for available AR 15's and the gun range for shooters of the AR 15, will not be dragging this out. I will probably buy a complete AR and later on add some options as I become accustomed to it. Will still be asking questions as I progress, as stated before, my knowledge of the AR is limited.
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  #12  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:08 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 1,253
Re: RRA National Match

Don't know if I can add too much that hasn't already been covered here, but Dan's correct in what he had to say about the ARs we use in competition. They're pretty specialized tools, and vary quite a bit from the standard AR. Kinda like stock cars, they may look similar in profile or external features, but there's an entirely different animal under the hood. If I may clarify something here, when he speaks of "problems" with the RRA NMs, he's talking more about minor tweaks that competitive shooters may want to have done on their rifles, not the trigger breaking down or anything like that. For someone just wanting a good AR, but not contemplating actual competition, the RRA should last a lifetime of field use.

For competitive uses of Master or High Master class, they'll certainly want something a bit more refined, and that's where WOA (John Holliger) comes in. I'd expand that a bit to include Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering and Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks. These three are hands down the top builders for competitive HP shooters, and all build first-rate rifles. The "basic Service Rifle" package from all three run basically what John offers as a standard, and will get any new shooter up and running in fine style. With very few additions (Gieselle trigger, one of the better rear sights perhaps), all will serve the High Master well, and are perfectly capable of taking you to a Distinguished Rifleman's badge, a President's Hundred tab or even the National Championship title.
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Lapua USA
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  #13  
Old 03-28-2011, 06:26 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: West Texas
Posts: 17
Re: RRA National Match

As previously stated, I am not a first class shot or anywhere near being one. I do appreciate the advice I have received, I do need to sharpen my shooting skills. Going to the range more often would probably help. If I decide to improve the accuracy of the AR I buy I will definitely be asking more questions.
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2011, 04:44 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Temecula CA
Posts: 381
Re: RRA National Match

Quote:
Originally Posted by DZelenka View Post
Woodnut,

I'll try to hit the high points.

1) The OP didn't make it known that he didn't intend to shoot service rifle competitions until after my post about the trigger weight. These are purpose built guns and there are much better choices if you are not going to compete. (more on that later).

2) You need to understand that I believe RRA builds good rifles. That is why I purchased 16 of them over the years for the state association and junior team. If I didn't think they were good, I would have bought another brand.

3) The triggers are good. I think they are the best factory trigger that is readily available. This is why RRA was chosen for the state association and junior program guns. It is also the trigger I recommend for someone on a budget. However, there is a reasonable chance that they will not last without tuning by someone who knows what he is doing. I say this because not less than 6 of the 16 rifles referenced above developed trigger issues. I have also seen many more on the firing line develop issues. I don't know why you haven't heard "complaints", perhaps it is because most people don't know what they are supposed to feel like. You cannot imagine the number of highpower shooters whose rifles I have been requested to shoot that were having trigger issues without their knowledge. They didn't realize they were having problems until they were given a rifle with a good trigger to try.

4) Complaints are relative things. I expect to have certain issues from factory rifles. Having to tune the trigger is one of them. This is not unique to the RRA. I am just stating a fact when I say the triggers have issues. It isn't a complaint. If you get one, send it to a pro and have it tuned and forget about it. Better yet, buy a lower without a trigger and install a Geisselle if you have a few extra bucks.

5) Barrels - Both the RRA and the WOA use Wilson barrels. I am pretty sure the WOA is better lapped, but I do know that it is better chambered. It is the difference between a factory chambering job and that done by a custom smith.

6) Sights. The RRA NM sights are usable. I have a few issues with them for competitive shooting. They are not true 1/4 x 1/4 MOA, you can move the rear sight by twisting it (it is under spring tension and hopefully it returns to zero), the rear hoods have non-standard threads and only come in .030" and .040" apertures, and the front sights are pinned and therefore not adjustable for windage. This is important when you are trying to center the scale on the back of the sight which is good to do when you are making adjustments for a rapidly changing wind. I ended up just painting a line on the sight when it was zeroed for wind, but it aggravates me that at least 1/3 are lined up this way.

In contrast, the WOA sights are true 1/4 MOA (I have checked them with a dial indicator), they ride up and down on pins like a match rifle sight, they come with 3 apertures in .038, .042 and .046 plus you can use WOA or CLE screw in inserts for other sizes, The front sight is windage adjustable (it even has a hex screw under the front sight to lock it). These upgrades are worth any extra price you may pay.

TxBroke,

Now that I know what you are looking to do with your rifle, I am going to suggest that the RRA NM rifle is not the best vehicle for your application. As stated before, the NM rifle is built to meet specific rules. For instance, it has a free float tube that is hidden under the handguard. Most other free float tubes are the handguard. Between the heavy barrel and the steel free float tube, the NM rifle is front heavy. Highpower shooters counteract this by filling the butt stock with lead. Not what you want to do with a rifle you may need to carry.

A better suggestion would be some sort of varmint upper. My personal preference would be a WOA. They have them in 18, 20, 24 and 26 inch barrel lengths. RRA and other manufacturers have similar uppers, but for the price, WOA is a step up in quality without much step up in price.

Any lower with the RRA NM or Geisselle trigger would be fine. If it is the RRA, have the trigger tuned.

If you are thinking about an AR, get one. You will really enjoy its accuracy and versatility.

Dan
The national match RRA is a bad fit for him for the above stated reasons. the RRA predator pursuit rifle doesn't have to conform to match rules and doesn't a hidden float tube under the hand guards. The hand guard is the float tube.
I can't comment on RRA arms triggers since I have a C3 defense lower. My RRA predator pursuit upper isn't heavy at all. With its 1 in 8 twist I can shoot everything from 50 grain varmint bullets to 77 grain match bullets.
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.308 Howa 1500, 24" varmint barrel, Harris bipod Bell & Carlson MkII tactical stock. 4-14x50 tactical scope from Wonder Optics.

http://web.me.com/rdsii64/shooter64
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