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Rifles to avoid?

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Old 02-19-2014, 08:40 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 20
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Your welcome. Clearly a topic with many opinions. And as they say about opinions...

If no one has more to offer on this topic, I'll just try some, buy one, and whatever I wind up with will be the cat's, uh, meow, and all other brands crap.
And if not, I'll stick it on the WTS classifieds with a target photo showing 30 rounds into .000046 inches at 1785 yards, shot upside down, underwater, rapid fire, all for about $10 less than I paid for it, retail, tax included.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:52 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 20
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Darryl H.-- In all seriousness, thanks for your post. I spent a lot of the afternoon in traffic, so a little worn out. Highlight of the day was getting to shoot--for about 25 minutes--at a public range. This is first sunny day we've had in close to a month.

I am narrowing it down to Colt 6920 or 6940, DGI, or Sig 516. Daniel Def. n the mix, but they command a pretty good premium here. One place had a brand called "Core." Piston gun and the trigger was noticeably crisper and better feel than the others. But I'd never heard of them.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:11 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 20
Re: Rifles to avoid?

I had heard good things about RRA accuracy. There was a shop that sold them, up around Dayton, OH (45 miles from me) couple years before the last "panic", and scarcity. His prices were great but I did not snap one up then. Then he went out of business, and for a while you could not get a new AR anywhere.

Anyway, you answered one of my questions-- the higher accuracy potential gets realized at some trade off in reliability.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:11 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Near Napoleon,MI
Posts: 997
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Wow, left handed gun, that was really an educational post...

All I can say is KNOW what you are buying.

Who made the barrel, what twist rate is it, what contour ? Was the manufacturer a match barrel company or are they an OE manufacturer. Few OE's make good quality barrels and even fewer make match quality barrels.
What type of trigger ? Triggers are expensive upgrades and your milspec hammer/trigger will be worthless.
Is the fore end free floated ? No free floating, don't expect much better than 2MOA.
Does it have an adjustable stock ? Not quite as expensive as a trigger upgrade, but still significant.

In a recent steel vs brass ammo test, several identical Bushmaster/DPMS AR's were used. Some of the rifles did not have the barrel nuts torqued properly and shot terribly until the crew figured it out and re-assembled them properly. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

You will note that in the referenced article, they say that the trigger weight ranged from 8-10lb and that the group size was about 3.5MOA and the 2 improperly assembled rifles were over 5MOA. This is not the typical story one gets from AR owners.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:51 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 20
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Post above is correct that many of the problems w/ M16A1 back in Vietnam days had to do w/ lack of chrome bbls, failure to maintain, failure to teach troops to maintain.
The propellant issue was also critical, for a gun design that even its devotees admit "cr-ps" on itself as it runs. During first deployment of M16s, the DOD used a powder the gun was not designed for. Guess they got a good deal on it.

I do plead guilty to reading a lot, but I try to be critical about what I read.
One thing I read was David Hackworth's account of how he tried the M16 out while it was still fairly new, and concluded it did one thing really well-- jam.
Hackworth was pretty controversial, but he loved the M1 Garand and the BAR (he also served in Korea), and respected the Kalashnikov for what it was, a little sloppy and crude tolerances but very reliable. So his comments regarding weapons weren't too off base.

To be fair, I also read the book about the Ia Drang battle in Viet Nam, where Hal Moore credited the M16 and the Huey pilots with saving the day for the Air Cav.

I would agree the AR makers have fixed a lot of things over 40 years. But see:

The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy

I do see an awful lot of people with DGI guns, who seem to experience no problems. But I see them on the range and we don't get too many sand storms here. If snow would provide good test conditions we have had plenty of that lately.

My brother was in the 101st Airborne, 1st Gulf War. He has an M4, but his favorite gun, hands down is an M1A with iron sights. For me, the M1A is a sweet shooter, very reliable, but you need a wheelbarrow to roll it around. And for me, it is a little unwieldy to shoot off shoulder, no rest. And the ammo is heavier and at least a little pricier. That's why I'm looking at the M4s. That, and I just like to try something different occasionally.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:30 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 62
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Daryl hit the nail on the head. And on a side note, I have a Sig 516 and big brother in 308. Very dependable but not anymore accurate than a Bushmaster carbine or my DPMS 308LR. Comes down to what your budget is. Then go get some "Recoil" therapy Brother.

Jim Clarke
27 YR Mil Vet Ret.
God, Country and Family.
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Old 03-02-2014, 01:30 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Montana Plains
Posts: 289
Re: Rifles to avoid?

I had 4 different AR-15 rifles. Colt, DPMS, Bushmaster, Olympic. Sold them all. Suckass triggers. Handles like a log wagon. I wanted a rifle that shot like a Ferrari drives.

Bought a CZ-527 Varmint in .223 Rem with an HS Precision kevlar stock.

With good handloads it is a 1/4 MOA rifle right out of the box. Excellent trigger, standard or set. The more you shoot it, the better it shoots. The way you fine tune a CZ rifle is just keep shooting it. They get better and better with use. I own four of them. Unlike the 4 AR-15 rifles I owned, I like all of them and have no intention of selling any. ALL of them are tack drivers out of the box, with decent handloads.
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