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Rifles to avoid?

 
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2014, 08:24 PM
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Location: Near Napoleon,MI
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Re: Rifles to avoid?

Greyfox, you need to look at the complete rifles. $850 a few years ago (prior to the panic) for a rifle with an A2 stock, non free floated plastic handguard, 16" inaccurate barrel, no sights whatsoever, no forward sling mount, cheapest hard plastic pistol grip on the market and a crap trigger. And a lot of slop between upper and lower. If you start upgrading that stuff, you will quickly pass the point where you could have just bought a much better quality AR in the first place.

Most Rock River rifles have a good 2 stage trigger.

At the time, the Sig 556 with folding stock, folding sights and red dot was about $1100.
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:26 AM
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Re: Rifles to avoid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
Greyfox, you need to look at the complete rifles. $850 a few years ago (prior to the panic) for a rifle with an A2 stock, non free floated plastic handguard, 16" inaccurate barrel, no sights whatsoever, no forward sling mount, cheapest hard plastic pistol grip on the market and a crap trigger. And a lot of slop between upper and lower. If you start upgrading that stuff, you will quickly pass the point where you could have just bought a much better quality AR in the first place.

Most Rock River rifles have a good 2 stage trigger.

At the time, the Sig 556 with folding stock, folding sights and red dot was about $1100.
Thanks for the info. Fortunately, I have been using the same lowers, Colt and Bushmaster for several years, and have purchased additional uppers for specialty applications. For this purpose, the DPMS "upper" that I have has proven to be exceptionally accurate, and quite reliable for the the approx $500 that I paid for it. My base rifles, A Colt, and Bushmaster, both 20" Hbar and A2 stocks have serviced me quite well for many years. Both have delivered excellent reliability and accuracy for several thousands of rounds. Also have a Remington R15 Varmint that is quite good. My only modification to all of them has been to replace the triggers.
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2014, 07:30 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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Re: Rifles to avoid?

Have to agree with Greyfox,
I have had several DPMS platforms and while some are more accurate than others (Like most rifles) They have all shot 1 MOA @100yds or less. I have one now thats the first AR platform I purchased 18yrs ago and its still on target. Stopped counting rds @8k and that was 4 years ago. DPMS isnt great on fit and finish like some, But they work.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2014, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Re: Rifles to avoid?

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Originally Posted by acloco View Post
1:9 twist "limiting" ammo choice? If all that you shoot is 80 gr AMax, 80 gr HPBT, or 90 grain pills...then yes...you would be limited.

1:9 twist stabilizes everything from 40 to 75 AMax & 77 Sierra's.


But, do NOT buy anything with a cast receiver or lower. Minimum if forged.

Of note, if you buy a complete rifle, if it does not have what you want on it, it will cost to change. So, go shopping and handle different flavors of handguards, stocks, barrel lengths, & barrel weights.

It IS cheaper to build than buy...including the minimal amount of tools needed.

A lot of good info passed along here. It's best to build than buy complete to get what you want.

I haven't seen a cast receiver in a long time and I think Olympic was about the last manufacturer casting receivers and they went to forged only a decade or longer ago.

About twist rate. If you want to shoot the heavy 75 and 77 grainers it's best to get a 7 or 8 twist. In my experience with approximately 30 9 twist ARs that I've built and helped buddies build it's a crap shoot. Sometimes it will stabilize them, sometimes it won't. The common rule is that the 9 twist will stabilize the 69 and 70 grainers at a maximum. I wouldn't buy a 9 twist expecting it to stabilize 75s and 77s. There's about a 70% chance you'll be disappointed unless you're at a high elevation and driving them hard.

General rules for twist rate:

1 in 9 for up to 70 grains

1 in 8 for 70 to 80

1 in 7 for anything above 80

And don't expect to use the 75+ amax's at mag length in an AR. The HPBTs work excellent though.
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  #12  
Old 01-15-2014, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 226
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Twist to me is where I failed on my first AR. I was advised to get a 1/8. You really need to know what you are planning on shooting. My 1/8 Shaw 20" heavy stainless, free floated shoots great but only with the heavy bullets. I'd really rather shoot the lighter stuff but mine won't. My advise to anyone other than someone wanting to shoot long range, go with a 1/9.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2014, 04:39 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 209
Re: Rifles to avoid?

I have used a del-ton kit. I am happy with it. It is a 1-7 twist. But i do tend to agree with the others 1-9 twist would have been better for me. Thats why the build im working on now is 1-9

Ar-15 is like a LEGO for Adults. I ended up changing a bunch of stuff on my Del-ton (not that it needed it) so figured from here on out I might as well start from scratch and build my own to make it just how I want.

Budget wise ... if you are smart and look for deals/sales you can come out with a better product building it yourself. imo. but nothing wrong with just buying one either.
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  #14  
Old 01-24-2014, 10:39 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1
Re: Rifles to avoid?

Any name brand AR will appreciate in value if cared for. With the current state of high quality CNC machining. I personally have not seen a new upper or lower out of spec. Olympic, CMMG early production pieces were rough, I build thirty plus custom AR's a year, Tactical Carbine, 3 gun and Service Rifle. But for at least the last five or so years their quality is solid.

The only negative I've ever had with DPMS was their practice of using the Teflon coating on some of their receivers. They look good until scratched and nothing short of a total refinish will ever make a match. With Mil Spec Anodizing there are a number of chemical reaction treatments that will blacken the aluminum for minor blems.

On Twist rate, 1/9 sounds like the right rate for 300 and under with standard Mil Spec M193 55g ammo or other cheaper available ammo, right up to good match grade 69s. About the piston Sigs. Not any of the piston military rifles take anywhere near the medals at Perry as the AR15 direct impingement system. The lack of rifle movement, due to the shifting mass of weight keeps the AR groups tighter. And I've seen shooters try using the Sig in local cross the course matches against ARs. AR shooters out shoot them. Could be the 4 less inches in barrel or just skill level.
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