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the 5.56 vs 308 debate

 
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  #1  
Old 04-22-2012, 12:25 PM
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the 5.56 vs 308 debate

I keep seeing all these debates online about which is better for the (sigh) "SHTF" scenario.
Most people say 5.56 because of CQB and clearing houses, and for "zombies" (whatever that means) because its lighter and less noise. (I have a 20" ar-15 and out in the open it will deafen me without hearing protection, so a 12" ar-15 for cqb would be even worse, so sound is no argument.) 5.56 and 308 are both deafening without hearing protection

What I have to say is that who the heck is going to be going around "house clearing" in that situation or even in any non "shtf" situation?
Also CQB? against who? the "zombies"?

I dont think people understand what a real life "SHTF" situation is going to be. If it does happen it is most likely going to be the government coming down on us.
So all your "battles" are going to most likely be between you/us and cops/governmental agents..not against harmless people roving about looking for food...(maybe these are the so called zombies?)

So in a real all hell breaks loose scenario and the unconstitutional police are fighting against the people, I personally am going 308 because of the barriers. Or if I was lucky enough to get out of dodge for the mountains, again 308 for hunting. If I had to "snipe" off bad guys coming from far off..again 308.
So for a real "shtf" (not fantasy shtf where you picture yourself as military running around clearing houses) I choose 308 all the way.
BUT if all you have is an ar-15, than so what it will work good too. Id go with Hornady 75 bthp as my main load

What do you guys think?
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2012, 05:32 AM
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Re: the 5.56 vs 308 debate

First off,

I think you aren't in touch with reality. As far out in left field as the "Zombie" movement is, you are equal to them if you post comments like this:

"I dont think people understand what a real life "SHTF" situation is going to be. If it does happen it is most likely going to be the government coming down on us.
So all your "battles" are going to most likely be between you/us and cops/governmental agents.."

"So in a real all hell breaks loose scenario and the unconstitutional police are fighting against the people..."

I am a police officer and I became a cop to protect people's constitutional rights, not to circumvent them or take them away. I was not born a police officer and I sure as hell don't intend to die as one, especially not taking away guns from citizens.

As far as a SHTF scenario, I would consider someone breaking into your home to kill/rob/rape...you would fit into this category. The 308 wins if energy is your consideration but you also have to consider over penetration. The 5.56 can be effective with the right bullets but a 55 gr projectile doesn't rank high on a kill a human immediately scale. There is a book called "Trigger Men," I forget the author, that talks about the kill power of a 223 loaded with 77gr smk's being similar to a 308 out to 600 yards. It is an excellent read that changes the debate. Ammo selection in the 5.56 can be a night and day difference.

From a cop that won't go to war with you unless you fire the first shot.
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:27 PM
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Re: the 5.56 vs 308 debate

16" AR for me.

In a real world SHTF - no zombies or crap - scenario, I will not be like you. I will not be out "sniping" people off.

I will be hunkered down in my bug out location and any engagemets I have will be in a defensive type scenario. ie. Someone trying to come in to my location. Be it for food, shelter, to talk, rape, mame, kill, no matter. You get in, or try, and you eat lead. This range requires fast follow ups, and the more ammo between mag changes the better, bad guys run in packs.

If you are out kicking in doors, the odds are against you living as long. My objective is to live and to protect my family. Keeping out of sight, not creating a bunch of noise (like picking 'em off from the roof at 300 yds) is your best defense.

SHTF = Katrina, Tornadoes, Flooding, Rodney King riots, etc. To defend yourself and your family when the SHTF is one thing, to be out picking them off at long range smells like a good murder charge when order is restored. Real snipers do use 308, and larger calibers.....Are they on the offensive, or defensive?

Sorry one more thing...You mentioned penetration of barriers. I personally think you need to investigate the effectiveness of a 223 projectile against common barriers that would arise in a SHTF scenario. You will be very surprised what non-milsurp ammo will penetrate, and how well it will do.
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2012, 03:46 PM
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Re: the 5.56 vs 308 debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd676 View Post
First off,

I think you aren't in touch with reality. As far out in left field as the "Zombie" movement is, you are equal to them if you post comments like this:

"I dont think people understand what a real life "SHTF" situation is going to be. If it does happen it is most likely going to be the government coming down on us.
So all your "battles" are going to most likely be between you/us and cops/governmental agents.."

"So in a real all hell breaks loose scenario and the unconstitutional police are fighting against the people..."

I am a police officer and I became a cop to protect people's constitutional rights, not to circumvent them or take them away. I was not born a police officer and I sure as hell don't intend to die as one, especially not taking away guns from citizens.

As far as a SHTF scenario, I would consider someone breaking into your home to kill/rob/rape...you would fit into this category. The 308 wins if energy is your consideration but you also have to consider over penetration. The 5.56 can be effective with the right bullets but a 55 gr projectile doesn't rank high on a kill a human immediately scale. There is a book called "Trigger Men," I forget the author, that talks about the kill power of a 223 loaded with 77gr smk's being similar to a 308 out to 600 yards. It is an excellent read that changes the debate. Ammo selection in the 5.56 can be a night and day difference.

From a cop that won't go to war with you unless you fire the first shot.
I hope youre right but Im sorry I am NOT out of touch of reality. As far as the government not coming down on people you are blinded my friend. When it does happen in full scale I just hope there are more police officers like you that are for the protection of citizens rather than for the police state that this country is turning into. They are slowly, smoothly doing this and the police force are going right along with it enforcing the unconstitutional laws. If you would like examples there are MANY.
So when a law is passed stating that no citizen can own a semi auto weapon or any firearm for that matter, are you going to enforce that law and arrest anyone that has a gun? You know you will (well maybe not you but most will), Im sorry but police will do as they are told.. Theyll just say something like " I know you should be allowed, but its the law now so Im just doing my job"

You also say Im out of touch because of comments like saying the battles will be between us and the government...What do you think Marshal Law is going to be like? That IS the government/police/military taking over. So yes it will be the American people against their government..not roving bands of hungry people
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:08 PM
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Re: the 5.56 vs 308 debate

Buddy, I agree with you that some of the powers that be would love to push for marshal law and taking our guns and freedoms away. I however give our police and military more credit than to think they would follow orders to enforce such ideals. It would take the the military, not just police to do what you are talking about. I don't know a single soldier that would become a tyrant against the country they are sworn to protect.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:50 PM
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Location: Jackson Hole, WY
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Re: the 5.56 vs 308 debate

Timmay,

There are some cops in places that buy into leberal ideology but there are states, like Wyoming, that are pushing aginst it. We have always been an open carry state and recently passed a law that a valid driver's license qualifies as a CCW, as well as other laws that protect the second ammendment. Most cops and military people love our country and what it stands for and will die to protect it against any enemy, foriegn or domestic.

I won't take guns from people if the government tells me to, that will be a federal law not a state law and I don't enforce federal laws. Besides red blooded American's will gladly give up their guns, bullets first right? Like I said in my first post, I wasn't born a cop and I don't intend to die as one. When I retire I have no plans to give up my guns to the government. Sure there are some moronic cops out there but don't put me into the same category as them; I would argue that I represent the vast majority not the minority. I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I felt somewhat slighted by it.

Trevor
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  #7  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:44 PM
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Re: the 5.56 vs 308 debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd676 View Post
Timmay,

There are some cops in places that buy into leberal ideology but there are states, like Wyoming, that are pushing aginst it. We have always been an open carry state and recently passed a law that a valid driver's license qualifies as a CCW, as well as other laws that protect the second ammendment. Most cops and military people love our country and what it stands for and will die to protect it against any enemy, foriegn or domestic.

I won't take guns from people if the government tells me to, that will be a federal law not a state law and I don't enforce federal laws. Besides red blooded American's will gladly give up their guns, bullets first right? Like I said in my first post, I wasn't born a cop and I don't intend to die as one. When I retire I have no plans to give up my guns to the government. Sure there are some moronic cops out there but don't put me into the same category as them; I would argue that I represent the vast majority not the minority. I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I felt somewhat slighted by it.

Trevor
I didnt mean any disrespect to you or your fellow officers. Without you guys anarchy would run rampant, so I respect what you guys do and putting your life in danger every day you go to work. Im just saying that the "sthf" deal isnt going to be what most think (at least thats my opinion).
Also like the other poster said about the military, I agree with him. Most soldiers are waking up and realizing that their government is extremely corrupt and is not going to follow orders during a marshal law or some other take over.
I feel that if the gov does do something like that, it will have to be with a foreign military under the UN and if/when that happens I KNOW the American soldiers will be having NONE of that and hopefully the police wont either. I know the armed citizens wont be having none of it.
I feel there is a domestic war coming in our near future. The government is out of control and has been completely taken over by foreign banks. NWO Bankers run this country. Republican/democrat doesnt matter whos in office, they are all controlled by the same puppet master
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