Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum


Reply

TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #120  
Old 04-10-2011, 09:56 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

Hi Dorge and Konrad,
So let's break it down for the readers.

One way or another all TAC15 owners are going to need extra nocks. It doesn't matter what you do, you're going to occasionally break a nock or two by either shooting some up or through the fletching process or possibly during hunting season some shooters will want to try out the lighted nocks.

If purchasing extra nocks from the manufacture they will cost you $25.99 per pack of 12.

The Firenocks are sold at $9.95 per 7, so that's $19.90 for 14 nocks.

Not a bad deal when you consider that the Firenocks are a superior nock in every way. Better fit, better quality, better material construction, much more precise in size and weight and if desired the nocks can be converted to full battery operated lighted nocks, so they are technically a superior product that sells for less money.

I like it when we have have superior products at a lower price point.

Great work Dorge. Keep the good stuff coming, I'm sure our readers will visit your website for a first hand look at all your products.

Regards,

Jon Henry
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:11 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 140
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon.henry755 View Post
One way or another all TAC15 owners are going to need extra nocks.
I would revise that to say: One way or another all TAC15 owners are going to need Firenocks.

At least for me, the OEM knocks are to "grabby" and inconsistent.

With that said, I have not tried to measure if there is any FPS difference between OEM & Firenocks (bare / non-lighting type).
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:31 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North West Washington
Posts: 80
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

All right guys, let's see some photos of those long range targets after performing all of the adjustments!

Konrad
__________________
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter can not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”

Col. Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:42 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 140
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
All right guys, let's see some photos of those long range targets after performing all of the adjustments!
Sure, as soon as I get a Super-Telephoto lens that can image those targets from so so far away.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:41 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

Hi OkieBowie,
Recently, I've been spending a good deal of my time and testing equipment looking into Dorge's information. I often appreciate new information, but also do a great deal of research to verify and validate information before I'll pass it along to others.

The good news is that I've found Dorge to be far more technical than any of us ever dreamed possible. Aside from a double engineering degree, Dorge has had extensive direct experience in a number of technically related fields. Needless to say, he researches everything to an exhaustive degree. As such, his information is his attempt to actually simplify a small part of what he has learned or already knows.

While it's true that his nocks are far superior to those produced by anybody else, there's a lot more to his products than just the simple things we've already discussed. One in particular is the margin of error within the Bitzenburger Fletching Jigs.

I've used a pair of Bitzenburger Jigs for the past twenty years and have always been very partial to these jigs. My uses have been exclusively 3 vane or feather fletching of either competition or hunting shafts ranging from every grade of aluminum to carbon / aluminum shafts from Easton.

I had never paid a great deal of attention to how much deviation or movement these jigs had and always assumed them to be fairly accurate with the selected indexing. Boy was I wrong!!!!

Recently, while producing the 60 x 120 degree four fletches for the TAC arrow shafts, I began measuring and comparing these finished arrows and I was also checking to see if the 60 degree spacing was really 60 degrees, as well as verifying if the 120 degree separation was in fact 120 degrees.

That's right, you guessed it, these measurements were way off and they were also different from arrow to arrow, even though they were coming off the same fletching jigs. Needless to say, I was very upset. I just spent hours and hours "Spine Testing", Sorting and Matching a couple dozen arrows. I spent extra hours matching shaft weights to the 100th of a grain (+ or - 3/100ths) and now I would need to remove all my vanes, clean down the shafts and re-do the fletching with a better quality jig.

I just learned an important lesson the hard way. I wasted the money of another couple packs of 50 Duravanes, and probably almost a dozen hours of my time before all is said and done and I wouldn't have ended up with the matched set of arrows that I was seeking to begin with.

The other big thing that I learned was in the bonding process of the Duravanes. Today, almost all manufactures are using Fletching jigs that are angled upward, but the glues that are being used are liquid cyanoacrylate ester based glues. These glues run like water, so an angled Jig is very difficult to use effectively without it running all over the arrow shaft and making a mess of a brand new arrow shaft.

The more important factor is that in order to achieve a vane to shaft bond that is capable of withstanding a few thousand pounds of force can only be achieved with 40 or more foot pounds of evenly disbursed downward clamp pressure.

The Bitzenburger Jig does not apply even downward pressure along the length of its clamp and 40 lbs. is way beyond the capability of its magnets. It's not level. so getting good even distribution of the glue is also not possible, so the problem with the vanes coming off on target impact is not just a problem of the glues that are being used, it's equally a problem of how the vanes are being applied to the shafts both at the factory and during home repair.

I hate to say this, but I'm going to be the one to stick my neck out and open the can of worms on this problem. Unless TAC owners are willing to invest in the right Fletching jigs to properly apply vanes to their arrow shafts, they'll be replacing vanes regularly forever. Eventually, it's going to cost them as much in vanes, glue and time as if they had just purchased a good fletching jig to begin with.

It might also be worth noting that there are only three commercial manufactures of the type of glue that I mention above, so it doesn't really matter which ones you try because in most cases you are using one of these manufactures products that are packaged and labeled for a particular seller or distributor.

The strongest bond between arrow shaft and vane is obtained with the thinnest coating of glue and the greatest amount of pressure applied evenly over the length of the vane. These bonds are so strong that the vane will rip or tear along their length long before the bond ever lets go.

The net, net of this whole thing is that while Dorges Jigs are a bit pricy, they're actually cheap when you understand what you are getting and exactly how many problems you are overcoming.

After seeing the difference these jigs have made and the type of bonding now attainable, my recommendation is that if a TAC owner is willing to spend between $1500 and $2200 on his xbow and buy arrows that are $90. per half dozen, then do yourself a favor and save your money long enough to purchase one of Dorge's Fletching Jigs, because it's the only thing that's going to solve a number of the problems with the accuracy and durability of the ammo used in these crossbows.

Dorge probably thinks I should work for him, but a good product is worth recognizing when it comes along, so for this one he gets a thumbs up.

Jon
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 04-19-2011, 05:58 AM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW virginia
Posts: 82
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

Jon, I could not have said it better myself. Dorge makes one fine jig. And addresses and overcomes all the problems of the conventional jigs. It would be interesting to know how much better many people would be able to shoot if they were able to have their arrows fletched with one of his jigs. Not many people "get it" and tell you to go ahead and spend your money on his "expensive" jig. But if you lay it out like you have, it really makes good sense.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 04-19-2011, 08:58 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 140
Re: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon.henry755 View Post
... my recommendation is that if a TAC owner is willing to spend between $1500 and $2200 on his xbow and buy arrows that are $90. per half dozen, then do yourself a favor and save your money long enough to purchase one of Dorge's Fletching Jigs, ...
Hi Jon:

You are to late! Sometime back I bought Dorge's Fletching Jig. I just can't comment on using it, because I have not had a chance due to serious illness in the family. There also is the legitimate excuse, I have to build or buy a Spine Tester, otherwise putting vanes on accurately, without regard to strong vs. weak sides of the shaft, is a wasted pursuit.

Still - thanks!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: TAC 15/15i Basic Unpublished Information
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need some basic cleaning advice. deermaster The Basics, Starting Out 4 01-11-2011 11:35 PM
Basic Gunsmithing that you can do J E Custom Gunsmithing 9 11-22-2008 06:26 PM
CZ 513 basic britz Rimfire and Airguns 3 06-27-2007 08:32 PM
Reloading die micrometer or basic? 270yotekiller Reloading 1 10-24-2005 03:24 PM
Basic reload question KRob Reloading 19 05-26-2005 03:08 PM

Current Poll
Do you plan to buy a new custom rifle in the next 12 months?
YES - Of course - 72.92%
1,651 Vote
NO - wife/girlfriend won't let me. - 27.08%
613 Votes
Total Votes: 2,264
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC