Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Hunting > PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum


Reply

Fletching Tac 15i arrows

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:51 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Fletching Tac 15i arrows

Great idea Twanger!

You know, you think I'm a wealth of knowledge, but if you and I lived closer and had gotten together, I'll bet anything that aside from the couple of things here and there that I could teach you, I could stand to learn a hundred or more from you.

You probably know more about urban deer hunting techniques and habits than anybody I've ever met. That's on top of all the statistical data you've gathered on things like cutting down the number of Kill Steps, etc...

It's great when we can exchange these ideas and information, since this is how everybody grows smarter as time goes on. I've learned as much from you and your threads as I've ever given, so I appreciate having people like you out there that contribute great information.

Those arrow wraps are on a new set of Aerobolt 200's, equipped with Dorge's Aerovane II's in a four fletch. They have my favorite wording imprinted on each wrap. It's the Grim Reaper with a bow at full draw and the slogan "Just Passin' Thru".

If you go to the Firenock.com website and look under "Products", you'll find the latest technical write up on the new Aerovane III's. They are the latest and greatest new technology based upon the research of a top Aerodynamics Engineering Professors Research. I'm just not sure they can be used on TAC15 Arrows (Aerobolts). This is because on a TAC15 arrow rotation of any type might cause an interference with getting the vanes to clear the arrow rest on exit. This is why PSE does not use any type of offset on their arrows.

This represents another entire series of tests that needs to be conducted in order to determine if any rate of spin can be tolerated on a TAC15 Crossbow and if so, how much?

Regards,

Jon
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:03 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 164
Re: Fletching Tac 15i arrows

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon.henry755 View Post
Great idea Twanger!

You know, you think I'm a wealth of knowledge, but if you and I lived closer and had gotten together, I'll bet anything that aside from the couple of things here and there that I could teach you, I could stand to learn a hundred or more from you.

You probably know more about urban deer hunting techniques and habits than anybody I've ever met. That's on top of all the statistical data you've gathered on things like cutting down the number of Kill Steps, etc...

It's great when we can exchange these ideas and information, since this is how everybody grows smarter as time goes on. I've learned as much from you and your threads as I've ever given, so I appreciate having people like you out there that contribute great information.

Those arrow wraps are on a new set of Aerobolt 200's, equipped with Dorge's Aerovane II's in a four fletch. They have my favorite wording imprinted on each wrap. It's the Grim Reaper with a bow at full draw and the slogan "Just Passin' Thru".

If you go to the Firenock.com website and look under "Products", you'll find the latest technical write up on the new Aerovane III's. They are the latest and greatest new technology based upon the research of a top Aerodynamics Engineering Professors Research. I'm just not sure they can be used on TAC15 Arrows (Aerobolts). This is because on a TAC15 arrow rotation of any type might cause an interference with getting the vanes to clear the arrow rest on exit. This is why PSE does not use any type of offset on their arrows.

This represents another entire series of tests that needs to be conducted in order to determine if any rate of spin can be tolerated on a TAC15 Crossbow and if so, how much?

Regards,

Jon
Just thinking about this some, it's hard to imagine that any significant spin would be imparted to the arrow before the fletching clears the rest. Consider a 2-degree offset. That's a lot! Only once the arrow leaves the string is it free to rotate. The Tac15 brace-height is, what, maybe 7.5 inches (I'd have to measure it). Say the fletchings are 2.5 inches, that's 3:1 ratio. So if the fletchings could instantaneously spin the arrow up to the fletching offset rate, that means you'd get 2*3=6 degrees of rotation by the time it gets to the whisker biscuit. BUT we know that the arrow has significant rotational inertial (mass) and cannot spin up instantaneously, so the actual rotation has to be less. Probably a lot less. It depends on the force (torque) the fletching can exert of course, but I'd be willing to bet a turkey dinner that the arrow doesn't rotate more than 35% of that potential 6 degrees (i.e. if was already spinning as fast as the fletching could spin it). So maybe 2-degrees of rotation by the time it hits the biscuit.

That's not very much.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:11 PM
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 53
Re: Fletching Tac 15i arrows

You felows are going to need a super high speed camera to solve this one! If I could win a lottery!

Buzzard Bait
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:53 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Fletching Tac 15i arrows

Hi Twanger,
Glad to see you have your thinking cap on and the wheels are turning as usual. All well made points and to a large degree fairly accurate, but since a Whisker Biscuit is designed to be shot through, it probably doesn't make that big a difference on that rest.

My information was directed to the other two arrow rests that replaced the Whisker Biscuit. I was referring to the QAD Ultra HDX Drop Away Rest and most importantly Dorge's new three finger "Aerorest".

One could argue that in the case of the QAD HDX Ultra Drop Away Rest that it shouldn't make any difference because the QAD will drop completely out of the way and therefore not be in the way of any vane rotations. In theory, this is a true statement. Where the problem comes in is as soon as we leave theory behind and only focus on reality. Reality needs to proven in actual execution and not on paper or on the drawing boards. Until it's been tested and re-tested in actual shooting situations, I can't prove that theory and reality are one in the same.

On Dorge's new Aerorest we have three support fingers placed one below the shaft and two above the shaft. This doesn't leave much room for a margin of error. Anything slightly out of alignment could cause vane contact between one of the vanes and any of the rest fingers. It doesn't take more than 1/2 degree of rotation to possibly create a problem, so again, this must be tested and proven in the real world as opposed to on paper or in theory.

When these new vanes are working, they are over 30% less affected by crosswind than a standard arrow. This is huge!!! With the new design of the vane they achieve almost 300% more rotation than a standard arrow. This is an archers dream and carries a significant number of major benefits.

Now all we need to do is prove that it can be successfully used on arrows with this crossbow.

I'm not here to say it will or it won't work. I'm just raising the flag to say that it's not a simple or straight forward as most people think and I can't solve this issue by using simple applied logic.

I applaud you for your sound reasoning and logic because it's far ahead of what most people would figure out and as i stated, in theory it makes sense. We just need to now move beyond theory and actually verify what is fact or fiction.

Regards,

Jon
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:10 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Fletching Tac 15i arrows

Hi Russ,
A High Speed Camera would be a dream come true for filming and proving these types of problems out. So when you've hit that lottery, please let me know and I'll send you my address so you know where to send me the camera.

In the mean time, while I'm waiting, I might need to do some old fashioned detective work using just plain old chalk on the top of my vanes while testing the new vanes during target shooting. If any of my blue chalk ends up on my rest prongs, I'll probably get the idea that something probably isn't quite right and that I might have a small problem.

I'm just not sure if I'm super exited about taking on yet another one of these adventures. In any case, it's not on the table now anyway. It's up to Dorge to decide when or if he's ready for that step, since he's the manufacturer.

These new additions to his line will be announced at the ATA Show this coming January, so we're talking about futures in this thread. This years ATA should be pretty hot with all the new Xbows, arrows and new equipment being introduced.

For you, me and Twanger the little project Lightfoot has going on is of more interest. We need to keep a close eye on how they progress, but always remain skeptical about the published ratings until we see solid results.

Regards,

Jon

Regards,

Jon
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Fletching Tac 15i arrows
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fletching tac arrows rc40099 PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum 15 08-12-2012 06:34 AM
pse tac 15 arrows TDEER PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum 4 04-05-2012 11:56 PM
tac 15i arrows J calvin PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum 1 10-02-2011 11:15 PM
Arrow Fletching And F.O.C. Balance ADMIN Technical Articles - Discussion 4 05-11-2011 04:07 PM
Got any more arrows dad??? 308 nate Bowhunting 1 08-01-2009 07:57 AM

Current Poll
Are you on Facebook?
Yes - 46.62%
1,091 Vote
No - 19.19%
449 Votes
No, but I may join - 1.75%
41 Votes
No way, are you kidding? - 36.15%
846 Votes
Total Votes: 2,340
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC