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Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

 
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  #8  
Old 04-18-2011, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 54
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

Has anyone used the Geissele triggers in the Tac 15i ? I'm used to two stage triggers from HP matches and looking for something to update my Tac 15. I was looking at the Hi-speed DMR Geissele which is adjustable from 3 to 5.1 lbs.

WildWillie
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  #9  
Old 04-18-2011, 06:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

Hi WildWillie,
Not that I'm aware of, but Len Backus who is the host and owner of this website uses a Jewel two stage on his TAC15i. Len was the first person I know of who altered his trigger on his TAC15i. He had to have some minor gunsmithing done in order to have the job done correctly, but the Jewel Two Stage Triggers can be set very light at 1.5 lbs. up to about 5 lbs.

If yo ask Len about his experience or knowledge he can probably provide some insight as to weather any gunsmithing may be involved.

One of the nice benefits of the Timney Triggers is that absolutely no gunsmithing is needed and they are very simple to install, so it's a definite do-it-yourself job.

Super 91 had ordered a new TAC15i and had decided to go with a Timney Trigger on his new xbow. He's about to go through the installation process in the next two weeks, so he can tell you fist hand just how simple it is. I did mine about 4 months ago and then wrote the step by steps as a result of how simple the process was.

I'm not advocating Timney Triggers, just stating that they are very simple and very solid. I firmly believe that if you have another trigger type that you prefer and want to try on your xbow, it could be well worth having a gunsmith perform the installation. Having your trigger perform to your individual feel is very important to your shooting accuracy and comfort.

Regards,

Jon
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2011, 06:54 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 54
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

Thanks for the reply.

One of the concerns I had using the Geissele trigger was how much you had to tinker with it to get a good fit. I'm not a gunsmith, but have used a file or two in my day.

I'll probably go with the Timney as well (I have one in a sporterized 1903) since they are so easy to install. I have not shot in a High Power match in years (Got kids now that take up all my time) so I am not worried about switching back and forth.
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  #11  
Old 04-18-2011, 07:55 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SW virginia
Posts: 82
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

I have a Les Baer AR-15 that I used the lower on my existing TAC-15 and it has a Jewel 2 stage and it is set at 1 pound 15 ounces. I really like that but I also really like my Timney triggers I have installed in a number of my other rifles.

I opted for the single stage Timney because you order it to suit your preferences. It is also a quality drop in that will fit the TAC-15i without any mods. So for me it was a easy choice. I should have my TAC-15i in here in the next week or so and will be doing a more extensive write-up on it at that time.

Jon here has already done a fine job on his install instructions. Take a look at his post on the subject.
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  #12  
Old 04-18-2011, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

Which ever trigger you decide to go with, it will be a night and day difference over the stock trigger.

Should you decide to go with one of the Timney Triggers, if you go to page two of this forum " PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting" you'll find the article that I produced which outlines the simple step by step instructions for the installation. More importantly, it provides a website link to Timney that is a link to their video of performing the installation on a standard AR15 rifle. Watching the video is very helpful before or during the installation process. My document will outline each of the differences between a standard AR15 and the TAC15i, so you won't have any surprises.

My last important tip is to make sure you order the trigger with the correct "Pin Size". All AR15's including the PSE TAC15i use the "small" Pins. The only exception to this rule is the Colt AR15, so unless you have certain versions of the Colt, you will need the Small Pin Trigger. Timney has sold enough of their triggers for this crossbow that they can easily tell yo which pin size you would need in the event you forget.

Once again, Len Backus is a distributor for Timney, so you won't get it any cheaper going direct than through him, but Len offers only the Timney regular trigger. There is also a skeletonized version that I use, which is about $50 more than the standard. It doesn't do anything the regular trigger doesn't do, but it looks a little better. I guess there's always a price for vanity, so I usually recommend to most people to save the $50 and get yourself a better fletching jig or some additional arrows.

When performing the trigger swap out, I would also strongly recommend doing some silencing work on your unit. As long as you have the upper and lower sections separated and open, it's the perfect time to quiet your crossbow for hunting. Each time you pull the trigger, the hammer strikes the hammer block pin which is a steel pin that goes through the frame of the TAC15i. This is responsible for over 75% of the noise produced from these crossbows.

By padding the hammer block pin, you immediately remove most of the noise and make these crossbows very quiet. Remember, this is not a vertical bow, it's a crossbow, so don't think you will silence it down equal to a regular bow. That's not going to happen, but you can get it to a very quiet level without to much difficulty.

I have a separate article on how to best quiet these units down and Super 91 and I are still experimenting with the use of some different materials on the hammer block pin. The other materials are not for additional silencing as much as for durability from the constant hammer strikes. One of us will publish some updates on this well before this years hunting seasons begin.

Regards,

Jon
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  #13  
Old 04-18-2011, 10:31 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 141
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon.henry755 View Post
Each time you pull the trigger, the hammer strikes the hammer block pin which is a steel pin that goes through the frame of the TAC15i. This is responsible for over 75% of the noise produced from these crossbows.

By padding the hammer block pin, you immediately remove most of the noise and make these crossbows very quiet.
Very, very Interesting...

Sometime back I looked into the issue of the noise made by the TAC-15.
What I found was there was two different noises with different associated frequencies. (Yeah, I am nutz enough I looked at the noises with a spectrum analysis program.) What I found was the opposite, that the hammer wasn't causing the most noise.

I did this by firing the TAC-15 without dropping the hammer, but by using fishing line to force the release and measuring the noise. Then measured the noise from dropping the hammer on an un-cocked bow.

Anyway, I still would be interested in how you managed to quiet the hammer drop and what material you used that stands up to what I think is a hammer blow with far too much energy.

To me a very light-weight hammer would be just as effective, would actually hit the string release quicker, and take less dampening to stop, thus quiet.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2011, 12:17 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 391
Re: Can the stock trigger pull be reduced?

Hi OkieBowie,
Please keep in mind that a normal TAC15 does not have the Hammer Block Pin across the frame, above the trigger assembly. That is one of the differences between the TAC15i and the TAC15. An AR15 is completely open above the trigger assembly, so I'm not sure what the hammer hits when the trigger is pulled, because I don't have one, so I can't examine that function.

Keep in mind that the TAC15i is a suedo AR15 Frame. It can't be converted to ever support an AR15 Upper Unit, since there's no place to insert a clip, the frame is slightly different and even the Buttstock unit is not the same. This becomes more evident when you go to replace the Buttstock Tube and remove the lock ring and locking ring nut. On most AR15's these pieces require heating due to the "Lock Tight" thread cement used at the factory during assembly. PSE uses no cement at all, so these pieces remove with very little pressure and normal channel locks do the job easily.

Also on the AR15's I believe you have some type of a seal or gasket between the upper and lower units that can allow for some movement and noise. The TAC15i uses 6 set screws (3 on each side of the frame to secure the upper and lower units. There are no seals and there is absolutely no slack, movement or noise from this area of the crossbow.

The steel frame pin that I originally mentioned on the TAC15i is a uni-directional pin. It can only be removed using a punch and banging the pin out from the side the safety switch is on and tapping it out through the other side. It must be reinserted the opposite way.

Beside this major noise producer, using a good set of Crossbow Limb Savers or Bow Jacks Limb Savers or similar product made for split limb crossbows should take care of any sounds or vibrations coming from the limbs. A set of string leeches and a bolt dampener should complete the silencing components needed.

I would be very interested in anybody that can come up with any additional elements on the TAC15i they can identify that might be producing any noise?

I'm not inferring that there aren't any, I'm stating that these are the ones that I new about when I was working on mine and it is 85 to 90 per cent quieter than when I started. I'd love to find a way to remove the remainder of sound produced.

Jon
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